It was amusing to see President Obama try to align himself with the OWS movement. The genial Millard Fillmore update asked them not to "demonize those who work on Wall Street." Of course, demonization proceeds from the failure of this president and his appointed agents in authority to subject those who work on Wall Street to the laws that mere mortals are supposed to follow in money matters. Hence, those who work on Wall Street appear to be something other than mortals. And since their work (on Wall Street) has had a malign influence on the common weal, some might leap to the conclusion that they are malevolent non-mortals, i.e. demons.
In this early stage of the convulsion rocking the western world, especially here in the USA, a peaceful ambience rules. That is because a game is being played. We played the game in 1968. It goes like this. You get people to turn out in the streets. The idea is to promote the right of public assembly as much as to make any particular point. (In fact, banners advocating all sorts of gripes appear.) Eventually, you get a lot of people in the streets. Feelings of happy anarchy sweep the crowd, a feeling that something special is underway, that the usual rules of everyday conduct have been suspended, in a good way. The crowd basks in the sunny glow of its own mass, happy solidarity. Everybody is behaving splendidly - more to feel good about.
After a while that gets boring, especially for young males with a lot of testosterone surging from loin to brain. They want to do more than bask in the radiance of their own righteous wonderfulness. They want to engage their large muscles, even if in the service of an idea, for instance the idea that they have been swindled. It is at first a vague idea, but large. But pretty soon it coheres emergently: swindled out of our future! Yes, it is so. Thousands of demon-like beings upstairs in the curtain-wall towers around Zuccotti Park, people wearing neckties and cultured pearls in warm offices with cappuccino machines down the hall, are at this very moment setting loose trading algorithms that will swindle us out of our future! You can see them up there at their evil, glowing screens!
That's when the yoga acrobatics and the hat crocheting are put aside and the street people - their ranks swollen into a horde-like meta-organism - start to express things beyond the right of public assembly. Something unseen goes through them, perhaps like the pheromone that transforms a field full of grasshoppers into a ravening swarm of locusts. Being people, they cannot take wing. But they can press forward and up against things, and they can surely break the glass in those sleek curtain-wall buildings (so much for "transparency") beyond which the bankers sit cringing in their expensive clothing.
Surely we are heading toward a moment like that. The bank employees upstairs must be getting a little nervous, anyway, just glancing out the windows at the moiling mob below. This is apart from the tensions internally roiling the banks themselves, not to mention the entire networked system of global banking, with all its fissures and cracks, as the merry-go-round of debt flies apart under the centrifugal force of insolvency. Come to think of it, these events could not have correlated more perfectly. Just as a horrific accident in finance is about to happen, a ready-made revolutionary mob is conveniently parked outside the pilot-houses of the world's great money vessels, so as to receive the crews directly into their open arms after the smash up.
President Obama could have changed the outcome if he had actually believed in change. He could have told his attorney general to enforce the securities law. He could have replaced the zombies at the SEC and told the new ones to apply all existing regulations. Before last year's election, he could have used his legislative majorities to repeal the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and reinstate the Glass-Steagall act. He could have initiated the process of deconstructing the giant banks back into their separate functions - so that banking once again worked as a utility rather than a launching pad for colossal frauds and swindles. Not only did he fail to do any of these things, he didn't even talk about it, or try.
Obama has a lot of nerve claiming to support the Occupy Wall Street movement. He should be one of the objects of its ire. I'm not even sure Obama will get to finish out his term of office. 2012 looks like a complete horror show in the making. The way world money matters are lining up this fall, some kind of debacle seems unavoidable, much worse than the 2008 fiasco. The normal political channels are clogged and sclerotic. Our institutions are failing us. The cast of "candidate" characters across the political spectrum convinces nobody that they can manage this republic.
The weather may determine the mood of the OWS crowd. If they don't go apeshit in the next two weeks, my guess is that the nation will hunker down into a dire, melancholy holiday season followed by a desperate winter leading to a raucous spring of political transformation - not necessarily of the best kind.
For the moment, we seem to be waiting for the proverbial first broken window
Well James - It seems that the crowds are expanding in protest around the US and the world - perhaps giving birth to a new order. But the Empire’s government has invented a fairytale to distract attention from the growing chorus of discontent. Greetings from kulturCritic
http://kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/iran-to-mexico-to-stop-arabia-in-america/
Bravo!
The Best!
We are holding our breath and waiting for the first shoe to drop in what can only turn out to be some manner of violent confrontation in one of our cities as these thousands of young people become restless and anxious while waiting for something to happen that addresses their anger and just concerns. The problems are now so huge and multifaced that there does not seem to be a solution to calm the savage beast. I sold my precious Rolex this weekend because I was starting to feel like a target just being out in public when a rough looking person would notice it in line at the 7 Eleven. I have a good job and can retire soon but am feeling helpless as far as what any kind of future can be for me and my family in what's to come. Meanwhile the oblivious masses that have not taken to the streets go on doing what they always do until it is half past too late. Everything is just fine, keep watching TV.
Wow - a guy with a Rolex (and calls it "beloved") reads CFN? Will wonders never cease?
Anyway, power never willingly gives in to the demands of the oppressed. Even the Magna Carta, which forced King John to distribute some of his power, was giving it to Feudal Lords, who could muster up some of their violence, not to the peasants living in their thatched-roof, dirt-floored huts.
Goldman is doing god's work. And yes, I very much consider the dismantling of the Amerikkkan fascist/nazi empire and impoverishing its thieving, callous, and willfully blind dealers of poison and death to be god's work. What more can be said. Faster, please!
At any moment the 99% could turn violent but probably won’t. They are showing remarkable restraint and for the most part are keeping things relatively calm and clean. For a truly grass roots organization (no Koch Brothers, no Roger Ailers, no Rupert Murdoch, who incidentally the shareholders are demanding step down), they’ve raised $300,000. Not much in comparison to the deep pockets of the corporate funded Tea Party phonies.
Should Obama the centrist, try to align himself with the 99%? Don’t think he will. He is too busy stomping out flash fires to deal with the upcoming nightmare of 2012. Herman Cain and his 999 seems to be the alternative de jour. The Republicans have done all they can to stop Obama from doing anything. NO on everything except expanding trade agreements with foreign countries and expanding US military occupation. No on jobs bills, no on health care, no on anything that might help the average unemployed and scared to death American. Because the GOP has one goal and one goal only – get Obama out of office even if its sinks the country for generations to come.
What might work would be a Special Counsel set up to investigate the Wall Street. But the GOP would instantly shoot it down. Too expensive! Can’t waste tax money on that! But we can waste money on finding out if Bill Clinton cheated on his wife. That’s really important. So let’s stay focused on the 99%. They’re not whining or complaining. They’re out there, doing something! Maybe it’s a lesson we are should all learn. Stand up for your rights or literally lose them. Because the GOP is very busy redistricting the votes in 38 states. So let the 99% speak. Encourage them, send a donation in, get out there, support the First Amendment and pick up a sign cause Actions Speak Louder Than Words.
"Faster, please!"
Kareful what u wish for..........
I was told by a OWSer that a march on Washington is being planned for April.
Hold on to your hat.
I'm just wondering if we're not going to have a "Kent State moment," when the NYPD White (brown?) Shirts stop merely using pepper spray and nightsticks, and start shooting. We may be just one broken window away from a bloodbath.
Who wants to bet that a lot of Americans wouldn't cheer to see this?
How many of you saw the video of the woman being arrested (by plainclothes police, no less) for closing her bank account? It's 90 seconds into the video:
http://wonkette.com/454855/nypd-arrests-woman-for-closing-her-citibank-account-video
Thumbs up to the protestors. I wish you well. I'm getting to be an old guy now, but I still remember what it was like to be young. You young people are right - my generation failed you spectacularly, and I don't blame you for protesting. You are inheriting a hell of a mess.
And to think that the 1960s "hippie generation" was once so rebellous. Now the radical hippies I went to high school with are either working on Wall Street or anchoring for Fox News. They cheer for war - as long as they don't have to fight it themselves.
America teeters on the brink of collapse. Well, the one ray of hope I have is that when the USA breaks up like the USSR did in 1991, some of the new republics may do well.
The international system of finance came rather close to total functional collapse in late 2008, so an economic catastrophe even a little bit worse than that would be dire news indeed!
In other news, Citigroup just reported a 74% jump in earnings to $3.8 billion.
Something is going to have to give soon...
James has been waiting for the moment when people start going after the people responsible for the financial crash and wondering why they haven't for more than three years. It looks like he's finally getting his wish, although the protesters are remaining a bit too peaceful for his taste. On the other hand, we in the Coffee Party are quite happy that the Occupiers are remaining non-violent. We've been planning an event, the Enough is Enough Rally and Citizens Intervention in Washington DC on October 29th for months now. Looks like we timed it perfectly.
Over on Crazy Eddie's Motie News, I've been blogging about both Occupy Wall Street and Occupy Detroit this past week. Right now, the top entry shows the eerie similarity between protesters burning their draft cards in 1966 and protesters burning their credit cards in 2011. I bet James would be happy to see that.
http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/
PRD, Actually, he called it "precious" as in Golem and the ring from "Lord of the Rings". They say don't love anything that can't love you back. But then again what do "they" know?
Jim's thinly disguised and frequent gleeful anticipation of social violence may satisfy testosterone needs or feelings of vengeance but such violence is not likely to lead to the needed change.And such violence is what the state is best suited to deal with. I think we may be seeing a qualitatively different mass movement that is not interested in violence as the basis for social change. It would be far more effective if this movement spreads into the general population as a word wide refusal to pay taxes or a world wide general strike with clear demands that would begin to address inequities, the end of oil, and the environmental devastation we are all facing. What happens when along with wall street, we turn on the Main Stream Corporate Media with the idea of seizing, owning and occupying the information media. The corporate funded duoploly is the biggest political scam in history and people are catching on.
In 1983, when I graduated from college, we were in a recession as bad as today's disaster. Reagan was beginning his onslaught on the New Deal, cutting many programs, including the Pell Grants that had made it possible for me to even go to school. I remember looking to become a part protests, finding none, and having no luck getting people riled up. Most of the members of my rather dumb, vapid generation were pursuing careers in law, finance or "business" and then got married to ostentatious consumption and "I'm OK, You're OK" wanking. I'm so glad to see that the current generation is standing up to our bully boy establishments and refusing to back down.
ccm989, I'll bet if we traced your web address it would lead back to Democratic Party HQ. Poor Obama can't do anything good because the evil Republicans have tied him up and thrown him in the woodshed. What a load of partisan crap. Even Kunstler isn't buying that anymore, reread the end of today's message. There's plenty Obama could have done to the criminals on Wall Street. Oh wait, that's right, they financed him. Well, I guess they get a free pass.
Like locusts, yes. Demonized grasshoppers.
The clerks look down on them from the
other side, and meanwhile, the terminals
tell their story. Who is right, which is
real?
JHK, this is the best of the year. Harpers
or Atlantic should reprint this. I suppose
you wouldn't allow that.
Down here in Key West we had 75 people show up for a protest and the weather was shitty. Not a bad turnout for a place that is about as far removed from WS as one can get.
This seems to have become a site for the blood-lusters. You all should get together with your torches and pitchforks, go out and do your own bloodletting. The warmongers, putting the young on battlefields, have nothing on you guys.
"Herman Cain and his 999 seems to be the alternative de jour."
The woman at the Hysterical Raisins blog has been calling that "Plan 999 from Outer Space" for a couple of weeks now. That meme is finally getting traction, as Krugman posted the trailer to "Plan 9 from Outer Space" on his blog the other day. To make things even more ridiculous, Cain's 999 plan looks very much like the default tax rates in Sim City 4. Cain says it's just a coincidence and denies that his economic advisor cribbed it from a video game. Too bad. It would probably be the most intelligent influence on his campaign.
I am afraid that as the Greek protesters lost to the Athens heat during the summer the OWS will lose to the New York winter.
This JHK post is hilarious. Don't know whether to laugh or cry.
"Just as a horrific accident in finance is about to happen,.."
I could quibble about "horrific"; let's get it over with, today.
Interesting. I have stopped wearing any jewelry while out and about in Chicago, as people have been getting assaulted for jewelry and phones. Don't have an iphone and wouldn't use it in public if I did. It does feel like a new era--I don't remember this, even in the 80s and 90s, except for the whole gold chain snatching thing.
To make matters worse, it has been a slow year for the garden, with masses of green tomatoes and a possible frost coming this week, sickly egg plants, bugs and squirrels eating things that they never touched before, stunted cabbges. Healthy chard and jalapenos, though.
KC, I read your blog and I think you let Obama off too easily. You paint him as some gullible toddler who believes the stranger with the sweet candy is really his friend. When I first heard about this I knew it was bullshit and I don't possess the intellectual heft of the President.
Where I live, Boulder County, Colorado, it is mainly the Seniors who have taken to the streets. The young apparently still have their noses buried in the their Smart Phones. Best sign so far: "Don't Fuck With Seniors". I am 64, and along with some of the other seniors, it appears we still have a bit of testosterone left. Don't think I will be destroying anything, however. Been there, done that but will continue to rally, protest, and raise hell.
Americans are wimps...too scared to die for anything they believe in anymore, even though Americans own the most guns in the world, at 88.8 per 100!! according to Wikipedia. Much easier to send out a drone to kill brown people we don't like. Americans boohooed about the 3,500 that died on 9/11 but seem quite comfortable at the hundreds of thousands of civilians that have died in the Middle East as a result of American foreign policy.
Bankers and corporations (yes, they're people!) need to be reminded of their mortality, and what physical pain is all about. Sadly, all that anti-terrorism infrastructure can and will be used against Americans. Private security is big business, and a growth business.
I agree that the sooner things collapse, the better...
Hi Jim and all the gang,
Yes , I agree, we appear to be in the breathless, terror filled waiting time for the storm to break. Violence is baked into the cake, no matter how peaceful these people are now. How can it be otherwise? Power will not concede power, no matter how nicely they are asked. No I'm afraid what we saw in Rome over the past few days is only a preview. Meanwhile Obama and company spin fairytales about the evil Iran using an incompetent used car salesman as the villain in the little B grade piece( this is taking austerity a little too far- using cut rate writers for the script- really how gauche ) . A classic diversionary play that doesn't seem to be taking too well with the masses. Too many people asking uncomfortable questions.
Fast and Furious is desparately being snowed under with Iran hysteria and the establishment clucking over the OWS folks. How convenient. The tension is building in the system, I look for a serious blow out pretty soon. But not with any glee as some here are accusing Jim of ( wrongly I think) but with the horrified fascination of seeing a car wreck, ya don't want to look, but ya just have to.
The inability of the Repugs to put up a candidate to truly challenge Ron Paul is starting to put a lot of pressure on the system too. He has consistently polled well and is picking up steam. People seem to like his ideas. The MSM is running out of ways to hide his candidacy and it is starting to show. Recently it was admitted on the Judge Napolitano show that he could get the GOP nomination. VERY interesting. His proposed budget has been made public and is pretty specific, with the main thing stated being he would take around 39,000 dollars a year for his salary. That should send all the pols over the edge. Imagine Nancy Pelosi getting by on 30,000 a year, she might not look quite so surprised anymore( no cash for plastic surgery don't ya know).
Take care clusterfuckers, and keep the pepper spray out of your eyes.
loveday
HMuller -- nope, sorry to disappoint you. I do not work for the Democratic Party or any other political group. I state only my own opinion. And if I don't agree with you or JHK, too bad. But I do thank Mr. Kunstler for putting me in touch with such a wonderful group of people who are thought provoking and write well.
Today’s young bloods may not give in to their testosterone quite as readily as their baby-boomer counterparts once did. Why? Because, despite appearances, there’s quite a bit more coherence these days; and this coherence’s subtle influence may well work to speed up this revolution. The coherent amongst us are working to ensure that 2012 isn’t going to be a horror show JHK has here predicted but rather the year of monumental change for the better!
http://www.Thesisa.org/
Obama and friends seek to make OWS to the Democrats what the Tea Party is to the Republicans, but I doubt it will work... I see the protests in Rome have turned violent, causing over $1 million in damage. It could certainly happen in New York too, but I hope not. Look how much violence and how many thousands of deaths have occurred in the Middle East and North Africa recently, yet the people have lost a lot more than they have gained. Hopefully the protests will continue to grow and remain peaceful - this country should be raising taxes on the rich and cutting spending on corrupt corporate contracts before it subjects the poor to this: http://aeinetwork.com/news408.html
I still have hope in our country.
I visited DC for the first time for the Solar Decathlon and saw hundreds of students promoting beautiful sustainable housing. I toured our nations Capitol building, saw where all of our countries great leaders had convened for over a century, and once again BELIEVE in our system working for the good of the people.
And now off to Dallas for SOLAR POWER INTERNATIONAL. The WORLD gathering for those who understand it's time for the Next Energy Level.
CHANGE THE WORLD
[TUNE: "Internationale",
as at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z3fUa9KAEk
or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tDNefrtJrg .
My intention is to set new words
to this fine marxist-leninist tune,
thereby enlisting the stirring music
without endorsing sterile marxist-leninist politics.
Corporate capitalism and marxism-leninism are now both defunct, and we need to find a new way forward. (I'd propose the ideas of Belloc
and Chesterton, as "distributivists", and
I would urge close study also of Catherine Doherty and Dorothy Day: cf my mission statement in "Business" section of www.metascientia.com.)
Do sing my words, anyone, if you think
such singing might be helpful!]
Fear not, a greener dawn is breaking,
Fear not, the trees shall grow again;
Hard-pressed communities now waking
Speak in words now clear and plain:
Away with greedy corporations,
Away with spin, with slant, with lies,
Restore God's justice to our nations,
O workers of the Earth, arise!
So comrades, come rally,
And our green tasks let us face:
This Internationale
Unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally,
And our green tasks let us face:
This Internationale
Unites the human race.
[Written by Toomas Karmo
as 20111015T022500Z/version 1.1.0,
and handed out in 80 or 90 copies
in the big crowd at 2011-10-15 "Occupy Toronto".
Author herewith invokes
GNU Free Documentation license,
allowing all people
to use this version without royalties,
and to make their own revised versions
if they append revision history and their own authorname.]
Close but no cigar Jim, the White Pussy Army in NYC is an emasculated herd of wimps compared to the crowds of 1968. The Left demands the complete emasculation of any white male and lo and behold it became reality.
Of course then the left turned to the virile dark man as its change arbiter of violence. But even the non-stop campaign of race hate put out by the Left shall come to naught.
So if the Left follows its inclanations to use its colored auxilaries they will lose 90% of the country overnight.
Anyway Wall St. sucks, but we on the Right cannot protest it because as soon as we do the JHKs of the world will suddenly inform the world of the latest, newest Nazi plot to subjugate the oppressed.
Status Quo holds for now.
Yepper,
It's the tension-and-release meme that makes for a fine horror movie.
Halloween couldn't be creeping up on us at a more appropriate time!
Will our "black swan" be a simple flash of awareness by the general populace? (Now, that WOULD be unexpected.)
"he could have used his legislative majorities to repeal the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and reinstate the Glass-Steagall act."
I met Tom Bliley back when he was in Congress. "Heckuvaniceguy," as folks around here say in one breath. His family--morticians--buried lots of folks I know. One of my buddies even dated his daughter. I'm sure I pulled a lever for him once.
But Congressman Bliley was owned, body and soul, by Philip Morris.
What sort of legislation could you have expected from a kept Congressman?
Hell yeah, bring back Glass-Steagall. John McCain supported that...one of his few sane actions in recent years.
But Obama has found his fighting spirit far too late. He should have called for it in a 100 Days agenda, the sort that more experienced politico would have trotted out given Obama's then-mandate by the voters.
Now it is far too late.
When Greece gives up the Euro, those bankers had better barricade the stairwells and shut down the elevators. The shock-wave will reach all the way here....and it will be worse that the Lehman collapse.
I don't think you liberal nutcase get it. WE ARE BROKE AS A COUNTRY, no more money to waste. The day of social engineering are going to be gone. OWS and other like causes are whinning, don't cut my program, but those other are wrong so cut theirs. When, as a country, we get the situation, then there will be a fix. We are to ingrained in the give me mine first mentality. We need more WE and less ME and yes the OWS is about the me generation.
Alas... I remember the games of 1968 well. Too bad they didn't give us the change we really wanted, but instead Dick Nixon. :-(
I only hope things are very, very different this time. In a good way for The People.
Jim, you may be right. The whole train of events may go off the rails and down the weedy embankment of lost mob innocence, its smoking and leaking wagons tossed in a tangle of forgotten optimism...
However, for now, there is hope, so consider THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S NEW ECONOMIC CHARTER, incorporating and building on the 9/29 OWS Declaration: http://bit.ly/pg5PN7 - Join the Charter Collaborative. Edit the 99%'s Economic Roadmap. Crowdsourcing Change!
Ralph
The power of the 98% is in our pockets. A few decades ago, we decided American cars sucked, so we started buying foreign and brought the US car industry to its knees. Women stopped buying beef and incidentally brought unpleasant consequences for Oprah from the industry.
Part of Jim's rant is to buy local. Well. Buy local. Want to see the big banks take notice? Move our money to local independent banks and credit unions. They're the ones who know what we need in our communities. The big ones used to be a lot of little banks, but they kept merging until they became too big to fail and they could gamble with our money on a global level.
Our ultimate economic salvation lies within our communities and neighborhoods. Let's invest in our friends and neighbors.
Loveday,
After reading your assertions about a surging Ron Paul, I went over to Real Clear Politics to see what the numbers stated. In Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina, Paul is trailing the poll leader by 16,28,and 25 pts.That's not a surge; that's a trickle. In South Carolina, for example, Paul garners 7% of the vote. Seven percent in South Carolina? If Paul can't gain traction in a state like South Carolina he is done.
To further elaborate of the politics of fantasy running rampant here on CFN, JHK speculates that " I'm not even sure Obama will get to finish out his term of office. 2012 looks like a complete horror show in the making ". Meanwhile, President Obama is annihilating his GOP opposition in the latest polls:
Obama 50, Romney 39
Obama 50, Cain 32
Obama 53,Perry 32
Is Dan Quayle still available?
A bit off topic, but it does mesh in with the subject of venal politicians (and those who prop them up for perusal by "Duh People")...
I think it was either X or Ix who inverted the 999 plan to the obvious 666 plan, which fits in with our demonizing theme as well.
Here's my findings as of the last post on JHK's missive of last Monday:
*******************
From the archives of "You Can't Make This Shit Up" comes a real shocker... Herman Cain did a lot of fiery preacher work for Americans For Prosperity and his campaign team is infested with AFP operatives and former operatives.
Oopsie, not so outsider/independent after all.
Guess who might be the main sponsors and organizers of AFP? Why, it's the squeaky-clean Koch Bros. Inc. I'm SHOCKED, I tell you, SHOCKED!
...And why [in the name of all that's unholy] would you vote for a person of the name "Cain"? (Oh, sorry, that's name-ist discrimination; and we all know how the Koch Bros. and their supporters care about "the People's" rights.) Should we perhaps find somebody named Abel to vote for instead? Mmmm, mebbe not; I see assassination in his future.
****************
Well, that's about how much we can trust the corporate/police state to come up with politicians with the actual Commonweal as first priority. Obama has made a fine example of wishful thinking and dirty deeds in service of the plutocrats.
Realistically, if the OWS protests do take a violent turn, how long will it be before things degenerate into a free for all of mindless vandalism and looting. Watch how quickly it will go from waving signs of "End Corporate Greed" to running out of a flaming Apple store with an armload of looted I-Pods.
"Anyway Wall St. sucks, but we on the Right cannot protest it because as soon as we do the JHKs of the world will suddenly inform the world of the latest, newest Nazi plot to subjugate the oppressed."
It was an inside job.......the Big Obama government did this.......not the irresponsible banks.....Now banks are again being punitively regulated under the Volcker Rule to cover up the government's incompetence........ hahahahahaha do they ever learn?
In 2005, when The Long Emergency was published, Jim predicted that the coming disruptions might be beyond our political system for solutions. Well here we are: gridlock,Citizens United,corporate personhood,corrupt political system,banksters,no change to believe in. What therefore is the alternative? Take it to the streets, start organizing for a general strike, stick a spanner in the works, boycott corporate money vacuuming operations(chain stores, wall street banking concerns, credit cards, etc....don't buy shit). When the deck is stacked against you, get a new deck.
Why is that that while watching all the "Night of the Living Dead" reruns and updates this week I am reminded of what is happening to the country? Better start nailing those boards over the front door!
"....broken window..."? I'm waiting for the first fatality. Protester or Law Enforcement. That's when things get interesting.
FIRST!!!
...no but seriously, great post JHK!
The core OWS will remain peaceful, but with the impending mathematical certainty of a bigger collapse than in 2008, I'm concerned some wing-nut politician(s) will emerge and attempt to mobilize the Zombie CPN's to blame, and then turn on the protesters, dropping whatever cheap chinese product they may be holding, while lining up at Wal-Mart, Home Depot, or Domino's.
Once that happens, expect the situation devolve quickly.
Look no further than Egypt, which is currently experiencing a horrific blowback from this type of power vacuum.
winter is coming...
The OWS folk had better get reacquainted with history. Remember what hapened when the rulers got tired of the street antics at the '68 Chicago Dem Convention? We have descendants of the swine-in-charge in '68 on the Executive Branch payroll even today.. . They are like a Frankenstein monster that will need a carbon-fiber stake through the heart to be rid of them forever.
How about that incident at Kent State?
These demonstrators would do well to stay alert and focused at the task at hand and stay away from confronting the Hitler/Bloomberg Youth Brownshirt brigades head on, especially if you're a 100 lb female going up against a trained thug in uniform with enough battle gear to defend Berlin/Upper East Side unscathed. Mace/tear gas/ pepper spray is merciful compared to the physical damage these pigs could meter out on the innocent.
Every Dog has its' Day.
Any Grassy Knolls in New York ?
If people really were so pers....what, oh shit, I gotta go help my co-worker decide on which costume her dog is going to wear for Halloween. Never mind. Americans, such as the one across the hall here at work, are so pathetic. As she said last week about the occupiers: "oh, you mean they are camping out there? I thought they drove back and forth." We have no shot. God bless Bank of America.
What happened to Fall? Going from 85 to 35 in a hurry again this year. Might be a good time to start building that arc for next summer.
ccm989
you really believe this is a "grass roots" movement???? How naive can you be. This has George Soros' dollar signs all over it.
How uncomfortably inconvenient major signs of failure show up when a half-black half-socialist 100% campaigning politician is shown as being only a half-President.
There will be many who will unconsciously find fault with the man, but really, he is only a product of his biggest campaign contributors.
Fooled again..., dammit.
Things are really breaking down this week. I was driving last night through redneck towns on my way back from the Sierras when I noticed a giant flag at half mast over a Chevron station. I thought, "who could that be for? Steve Jobs?" I got home on the net to find out it was some duchbag nascar driver.
Burn it down.
In response to someone above who said that the US is well equipped to deal with violent protest. I disagree. Something happens in people when they see ordinary people getting mistreated. It makes them show up.
My own experience with this is when Willy Brown aka 'Da Mayor' put an end to Critical Mass in SF. 5000 people showed up and took the streets...things turned a little violent and then 8000 people showed up. He did the right thing... the only thing he could have done which was to capitulate.
I watched that video of that lady getting stuffed into a hole for closing her account or at least not doing anything outside her rights and my wife and I decided to remove our savings from Bof A and US bank. Its only $60k (which I feel lucky to have) but It will send a message.
Burn this monster down already so we can start rebuilding. That is the way I feel and I am no anarchist. That is the way many if not all of my friends and family feel.
A brilliant piece of writing, Jim. But I question your judgement on one thing -- Didn't you vote for Obama? If you couldn't see through his airy promises of "Hope" and "Change", then how can we trust your assessment that "The cast of "candidate" characters across the political spectrum convinces nobody that they can manage this republic."?
Perhaps you don't see anyone, but a lot of Americans are coming to see there is one candidate who has the right principles to run this country the way we have always believed it should be run: "of the people, by the people, and for the people."
Of course, I am referring to Congressman Ron Paul, who has been treated as "The Invisible Candidate" by the media. The best evidence that he has the right answers is the fact that the changes his Constitutional approach would bring are anathema to our current oligarchy, both Democrats and Republicans.
They'd rather pretend Ron Paul doesn't exist, rather than answer him point-for-point.
Check him out, but don't tell us that there is no viable alternative candidate who can do the job.
Buck
Well, not to put too fine a point on it but, pay attention, the MSM has consistently cooked the poll results. I mean Gingrich seriously ? That old, lecherous, zombie is still included in the polling? Really? Romney, of the Massachusetts health care plan that served as the blue print for disastrous Obama care- really? Perry, govenor good hair himself, that pushed for HPV vaccines when he knew nothing about those vaccines-really? Oh well think what you want. Paul most probably won't get the nomination, but what he represents is the emergence of a more reality based line of thought. Ending endless war- check, ending endless debt to the FED- check, ending endless police state encroachments on constitutional rights- check, point is he has some things to say that are definitely not Mainstream and people like that. And yes I do think he is picking up steam.
Obama is running scared- the Fast and Furious farce has been blown wide open, the worsening economic situation is accelerating like a bullet train, he has been unable or unwilling to accomplish any of his proposals( think closing Guantanamo, pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan, economic recovery, etc... etc...) and Michelle's expensive vacations have proven to be quite an embarassment in this age of austerity. So I find it simply not credible that he is polling in the 50 percent range, sounds like a faker fairytale that the recent Iran nonsense.
I don't think politics as usual will hold any real solutions. The left/right model has been stubbornly purposely deaf to the wishes of the population( the 99 percent). Therefore we are seeing small glimpses of a new emerging political reality, that will be more responsive to the people. Paul is one of those glimpses, please note he is a Repub in name only, most of the Repub political machine won't touch him with gloves on.
have a great day
loveday
That missing period at the end of the last paragraph seems ominous somehow.
Well I had a rewarding day on the protest line in my smaller NW city this weekend. A nice diversity of people, interesting conversations, a support level of at least 75% of the cars passing by. Overall feeling of solidarity and determination.
As for violence it may be inevitable but I think it will be instigated/provoked by the State that represents and is commanded by the 1%. Before it comes to that we would be wise to take violent financial action. The big banks are going to FAIL, so MOVE YOUR MONEY now to a smaller, local, more stable community bank or credit union. They offer all the services of the big banks, direct deposit (if you are so lucky), etc. Don't worry about ATMs, remember you can get cashback at the store.
Doing business with a megabank is a bad habit but one that is easy (and pleasant) to change. These bankers may be a little nervous watching the OWSers but they really don't care about people with signs. The only language they speak is money and masses of closed accounts will actually get their attention.
So tell your friends and small business owners: Open an alternative account first, then MOVE YOUR MONEY. NOVEMBER 5TH IS BANK TRANSFER DAY!
Thanks Mr Kunstler, I often feel as in you and I are are on some sort of similar cosmic wavelength.
American's have had some enormous clouds of methane gas blown up their collective asses for over thirty years. And now, at least since 2000, we've had nothing but one humongous shit-sandwich shoved down our throats - one after the other.
What's changed? Well for one thing, there has been an exponential growth in hubris and greed among "america's finest" - until we have reached the point of selective enforcement and rigging of systems touching all walks of life.
Stating that we need reform is like stating the Titanic could use some de-icer for for the windows on the bridge.
Everything, the world markets, the stock exchanges, our government(s) are so fucking corrupted that its hard to tell if any honest commerce exists to preserve.
This is why it so important to understand and emphasize that our starting points need only be to exercise honest enforcement of what little control of these criminal enterprises is left us.
All of us should make it point to remind each other as well as what other brainless asses we encounter that there have been crime committed. And that in spite of what anyone wants to say, OWser's are really the only people who are standing up for truth, justice and the American way.
I have nothing against rich people getting rich - unless the only reason they are rich is by cheating the system or bribing governments.
Don't let the fucking "political right" steal the message. This movement is about stopping crimes, and restoring markets that are to be governed by the peoples' choices, not political corruption.
But, I digress, carry on.
Violence? You wish! Many CFN readers can't wait for the long-promised Hell to break loose, but that flies in the face of reality. Here in the US, we are far too comfortable, and have far too many distractions keeping our tushes on the couch, watching TV and surfing the net at the same time. I am surprised to see people in the streets at all! OWS is actually a VERY tepid response, but it's better than nothing...
I personally went down to Zuccotti Park a couple weeks ago, and hung out for bit. It was cool to be part of it for a short while. But like most people, I have a day-job that I need to take care of my family, pay my mortgage.... it's quite a commitment (really, it's quite an abandonment of my other daily commitments) to protest in the street.
Reality check: Unless the system totally collapses into mass starvation and homelessness, detention of innocent civilians, institution of the draft (or some other existential threat), OWS will probably remain a nice, polite movement with - at most - some minor skirmishes with cops. This ain't Egypt. This isn't even the 1960's! Anyone who is hoping (secretly or openly) for significant riots and violence will probably be disappointed.
I'd say all bets are off at this point. Here in Canada there were occupations in about 21 cities on the weekend and the one in Toronto is continuing as the work week begins. I see that cops in Chicago and Boston are starting to wield their various big sticks, while in Rome the crowd has turned to destruction.
While each occupation site will write its own story, one truth is evident. The authorities will only stand by and watch for so long before deciding play time is over. Then they will move in, and that's when the violence will start.
Remember Jim Morrison's line in that old song? "They've got the guns but we've got the numbers. Gonna win, we're taking over".
If only that had been true! Sadly, it won't be true this time either, unless the silent masses rise up to add their own commitment, and stand with the Occupiers. That might happen eventually, but in the meantime many good and faithful people will be beat senseless and go home with tails between their legs, defeated.
It's just not going to be one Big, Decisive Moment when everything changes. It's going to take years of strife and heartache. Like JHK says, a Long Emergency.
Still, this old girl is very glad it has at least started. About time.
"Tin soldiers and Nixon coming, We're finally on our own. This summer I hear the drumming. Four dead in Ohio." - Neil Young
Gardening this year has apparently been a serious challenge for almost everyone, everywhere. Ohio is extraordinarily blessed with good ground (except for the terminal morain on which we live), ample rainfall and moderate temps, so most people just plant their gardens, sit back and let Mother Nature do her thing. This year, we had a severe drought and high temps. Mother Nature just took the year off, sat back and flipped everyone off. Fortunately, we're from Oklahoma (although I am sure nothing grew there in this year from Hell), and learned how to garden in unfavorable weather. I canned 137 quarts of green beans, 117 quarts of tomatoes and 17 quarts of hot spaghetti sauce, also around 50 mylar bags of dehydrated apples. Corn was a disappointment and peppers didn't do well. No eggplant at all, nor squash. What area of the country are you in? Not wanting an address, just a vague idea. No one seems to have had a good year.
"I am afraid that as the Greek Protesters lost to the Athens Heat during the summer the OWS will lose to the New York Winter."
Question 1) Does the Athens win mean there will be a game 7? And, why would the outcome of the Greek/Athens Heat game have any bearing on the OWS/NY Winter match up?
Question 2) If the OWS Cavaliers lose to the New York Winter, they maintain their playoff spot, correct? Or, am I just being overly optimistic.
Question 3) Will LSU maintain their unbeaten record after meeting Alabama?
Southern Leaguer.
Oh Good Night Irene!!! Closed Minded much? I wish the Chief Horndog were still with us as he did a much better job. Poor Obammy had a huge majority when he began and still got nothing done (Thank God), so to blame the Republicans is farcical and naive, at best. Deluded and brainwashed at worst. We voted for Hillary, with reservations, but she, guided by Bill, would have averted some of the mess, I think. You also failed to mention that B.O. received billions from Wall Street, more than any candidate, so he is hardly spotless in this morality contest.
B.O.gave me a tingling sensation when I first saw him speak, but it was cold chills. Those dead, snake-like eyes and his constant "Loot at me! Look at me! Look at me!" were scary. There's something wrong with this man and he still has enough followers to really hurt us.
Hoo boy! Let's see how long it takes before this "moiling mob" splinters into contending factions for dominance within itself. Personally, I fear most the La-La faction contending a quick-fix-patch-kit of no borders, no sovereign separations, no jurisdictional rule of law by which a citizenry can direct its own discreet destiny. Ah yes, if we all just join hands around the globe suddenly there'll be food, water and land for everyone, all living in harmonious tranquility -- and, of course, having as many children as directed by which every Bronze Age beliefs they subscribed to. As of the moment, this faction has already implanted itself into the OWSer’s DNA, demanding at once that the US forfeit its slimming chance of survival by welcoming in no limit of distressed population from all the already hopelessly overpopulated regions of the globe. And, of course, we’ll welcome too (and celebrate to boot) their diversity of beliefs that prevents them from apprehending the 21st Century reality. But, I forget,…..we American’s are too Caucasian and too European of culture to deserve entitlement to save ourselves.
Dear Paraquat,
What kind of delusion are you living under? First of all the woman in that video was a definite plant for the Wall Street Protestors. (Please who are you kidding). Second, Kent State Moment? You sound as if you are wishing people get killed. Third, Old guy, that remembers what it is like to be young and protest your little heart out? Those days were not fun. Those protests did nothing but give you hippies, a chance to feel important as you smoked weed and look like heros so you can get some more free sex.
So don't reminence so much. Sounds like most of your memories are behind a smoke haze of delusion.
Why don't you join your fellow "patiots" and get arrested so you can tell the "fake press" how hard it is to live in America.(Like they care,they are part of the problem) I am sure the rest of the "old hippies" are right there with you, at least until the drugs run out. When and if you ever come out of your delusional rememberance you will see a country that is on the brink of disaster. The Obama-nation of people who voted for this freak are now out there protesting against him. He was always been a freak, (as was Bush, Clinton and Bush 1). Maybe if the baby boomers weren't so hung up on their partying, they would have been sober enough to stop the banks and wall street BEFORE this mess happened. ITS WAY, WAY PAST THE WALL STREET MOVEMENT NOW. The run away train is going to hit the wall, and this country is going down. The first to go will be the wall street protestors, followed by the bankers and eventually the so called "rich". what ever that means. (I have a suspicion it means: ANYONE WITH A JOB.)
Great posting, Jim! One of the all time best.
Might it be that the OWSers are America's last hope?
Has regime change come to the America?
I am totally on the rebels' side.
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." - Thomas Jefferson
I would never advise anyone to put their life or limb at stake for a mere symbolic protest. but this is more than that, our very future is at stake. This movement is overdue, long past Jefferson's twenty-year time scale, and if bloodshed is on the menu, one can only hope the people shedding their blood will have made their choices with informed minds and no illusions.
I certainly hope not. Thanks to your comment, I now have the "Ohio" song rattling around in my head and will have it all day long.
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming
Four dead in Ohio."
("Ohio" lyrics by Neil Young)
"Tin Soldiers" represent the Ohio National Guard, another group of scared kids, and Nixon because everyone blamed him for the war, for those of you too young to have been there. I didn't do war protesting, coming from a family of veterans, but I was active in the Civil Rights movement. If Obammy is the result, I'm now really sorry.
Mr. Kunstler, you did an amazing job this week.
An addendum on the Jefferson quote: This time it's not the people in rebellion who need to be "set right as to facts", it's the powers-that-be who need reminding as to the consequences of serving themselves too greedily and too long at the expense of the common weal. There is still room for hope that this can be accomplished before too many mothers' daughters and sons are buried.
Hi Ptolemy - just wondered if you thought of donating the proceeds of the sale of your Rolex to a group that is feeding the hungry or sheltering the homeless.
I don't think James is advocating violence, he's just saying it might eventually be inevitable if people get all fired up and nothing changes.
We're seriously considering changing our party affiliation this year, which is serious for us. Think we'll vote for Herman Cain, although I have deep reservations about the "999" plan. First, because it's never good to open another revenue stream to the Feds, and second, because I think it will turn out to be much more than 9% when/if it's implemented. The formula just doesn't assure that it won't have the dreaded "unintended consequences", finally bankrupting us all. Both "The Economic Collapse" and Charles Hugh Smith's "Of Two Minds" have a very detailed analysis of the plan, and it's not good.
Now, why is Obammy so sacred to the Left, but Cain is a target? He hasn't hidden any of his past and he's the real deal, plus has experience in turning a bad situation around. Experience in business is a good thing. No experience and not having a clue is not a good thing.
Could it be that Cain had the unmitigated gall to say farewell to the Democrats? The Left definitely considers all blacks to be their property, and any Kulak who dares to wander off the Democrat plantation must be stopped before the exodus spreads???? Be honest, if you can.
Loveday,
The biggest problem facing Paul is a lack big donors. I watched the last debate and Paul was basically ignored. Confirming the intentional travesty was the amount of air play that Hunstmen received. I'm like, who... Hunstmen? - who cares, give me some Ron Paul, at least for the sake of entertainment. Consequently, every time Paul gets a chance to speak it comes off as possibly his last breath. And what refrain is uttered from the desperate lips of a pariah ignored other than... "FEDERAL RESERVE". This dynamic, and Paul's predictable, harried response just sort of reinforces the notion that Paul is an obsessive conspiracy type, and, as a result, easily dismissed and overlooked by Joe and Jane Everyday.
If Ron Paul want's to be taken seriously he needs to get serious about marketing himself and his ideas, because as it stands now, the MSM is playing him like a wind-up talking doll.
I wish the OWSers well. But I would remind them that their adversaries see/saw no problem in killing tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis and an untold number of Afghanis simplyu because they had the misfortune of being born where they were. So, if the OWSers think for once that their enemy won't release the dogs of war on them, they should think again. The Wall Streeters are venal, callous and heartless. For certain. So we should expect them to make increasingly viscious attacks on the OWSers as their rice bowls are threatened. The problem is the OWSers can't be sure they are really making an effect until the Wall Streeters really get nasty. This scene does not have a good ending, but is probabaly unavoidable.
Don't put yourself down. If you're a self-supporting, non-whiny adult, you're way ahead of Obama.
driguano -- http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/16/national/main20121154.shtml -- CBS/New York. George Soros funds Moveon.org. If he were funding the OWS, they'd have a LOT MORE than a scant $300,000.
Sorry tomkarmo, I couldn't sing the part about "God's justice", it would stick in my throat. The only justice we are going to have is that which we create for ourselves. Of the people, by the people, for the people. No "God" involved.
Just to add to my previous comment - here are the actual words to the second verse of the Internationale (translated from the French):
There are no supreme saviours
Neither God, nor Caesar, nor tribune.
Producers, let us save ourselves
Decree the common salvation
So that the thief expires,
So that the spirit be pulled from its prison,
Let us fan the forge ourselves
Strike the iron while it is hot
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|
I think OWS will gradually develop a list of concrete actions and demands. Starting with MOVE YOUR MONEY, (stop feeding the machine) and progressing to campaign funding reform, reinstating financial regulation, partial cancelling of student debt, a tax on oil companies to fund replacement energy sources, real action on climate change, a major pullback in our overseas military bases, etc.
If the system refuses to change it will then be plain for all to see. That's when you should listen for the sound of breaking glass.
The powerful are just waiting for the violence to begin so they can use what they have been practicing all over the world. The world of drones. Robots flying robots. It is 1984 now. Be prepared and good luck. Check this out: http://www.alternet.org/story/152756/america%E2%80%99s_secret_empire_of_drone_bases%3A_its_full_extent_revealed_for_the_first_time
Wow - "we on the Right" sure have some bizarre ideas!
PRD - King John was an embarrassment as a despot, a complete loser.
Jim Kunstler said:
Of course, demonization proceeds from the failure of this president and his appointed agents in authority to subject those who work on Wall Street to the laws that mere mortals are supposed to follow in money matters.
********************************************************************
Yes ... it really is THAT simple. I would add that when
President Obama tried to chide people from criticizing
Wall Street workers, he insults our intelligence. I think
normal people know that secretaries, low-level brokers,
and the janitor at Goldman Sachs have nothing to do
with the fundamental problems that have been created.
Normal people, and the OWS movement, know that it's
a few oligarchs that are creating the problem, not rank
and file workers.
E.
Actually, Woodfarm, it's the people you call "Liberal nutcases" who are the ones who have been saying for 30 years that growth can't continue, and who are the ones currently saying that the days of growth are over. Read Richard Heinberg's The End of Growth - I'm sure he's one of the people you would classify as a "Liberal nutcase" but he's been writing books about the end of growth for a good 10 years now.
I also agree with JHK that 2012 is shaping up as a horror
year and it is NOT anything to do with Mayan calendars.
The Economic Cycle Research Institute's very, very accurate
indicators usually manifest in the real economy three months
into the future (they are leading, not lagging indicators).
And a recession at this juncture, from an already low base
of economic activity, is going to feel like a Great Depression.
I mean, when the participation of people in the labor force
is at alltime lows, capacity utilization is in the low/mid 60s,
and wages are going down, any movement downward from
those conditions IS a depression.
E.
Thank you Clipscripter. One of the most intelligent comments on here today. We are the change, we are the changers.
metuselah
nice idea that Goldman is doing god's work's in bringing down the empire.
A cop in Missouri used the same conceit - that he was doing god's work - when he pulled me over for a drug inspection. Thought I might be ferrying marijuana into Kansas. An illegal search seems to be ok if you are doing god's work, so I guess CDO's are ok too.
Banks are being "punitively regulated"?? Give me a break. "Punily regulated" is more like it. Or "almost not regulated any more than they were".
Al Klein
your point is understood - that demonstrations are tolerated until they become effective.
We hated godless communism. Should we love godless capitalism?
Please, folks, do a little more research into Ron Paul before you start wanting him to be President. AlterNet has a number of good articles about his real beliefs. Start with the one entitled "5 Reasons Progressives Should Treat Ron Paul with Extreme Caution -- 'Cuddly' Libertarian Has Some Very Dark Politics" - unless you are anti-gay, anti-black, anti-equality, anti-education, anti-woman, and anti-senior citizen. If you are, then I guess he's the candidate for you.
Hi Juletta - here on Vancouver Island we were blessed with a great summer. Just enough rain, just enough sun. Things got off to a bit of a slow start but the harvest came through perfectly. No frost until 2 days ago.
you really are insufferable.
insufferable - you say "First of all the woman in that video was a definite plant"
I hope you pay attention over the next few days to see how that plays out. You may be facing some cognitive dissonance.
Newworld, you embarrass the right, I hope.
"Check him out, but don't tell us that there is no viable alternative candidate who can do the job."
Mr. Kemp, the problem is, they hate the Constitution worse than the republicans.
I think its just to early to call the effects of the OWSer movement. Just a decade earlier, the WTO protests in Seattle, the Republican convention in NYC, Miami, and others are the real preludes. If you want to compare and contrast movements, those are the analogues.
One of the reason 'breaking glass' hasn't happened is because the idealism is still alive, to the greater degree. That and the fact that most of the time, police action incites the turn to more violent forms of protest. The cops are hanging back, to some degree, I think, because this amounts to a protest of the sitting (democratic) president, which Cops, being the (professional) defenders of the status quo (conservatism) largely approve, and the mainstream left (democrats) have yet to repudiate their 2008 votes and psychological investments.
See Chris Hedges's article "A Movement Too Big to Fail" at commondreams.org.
Jim,
Who would you like to see become president? I'm not excited about anyone. This presidency proves that the ability to wheel and deal with congress is an essential leadership trait we need. Heck, Obama can't even schedule a nationally televised speech without getting crap from the republicans.
I seriously doubt a Pizza CEO has enough political ability to deal with congress. We need someone with a proven record of wheeling and dealing. One politician I respect is California Governor Jerry Brown--but he doesn't have the national experience.
I will be forever ticked off that we sent military aid to Libya. Unforgiveable. Now we're sending 100 or so soldiers into some other hell hole in Africa for dubious reasons. Our track record for nation building is a joke, we need to give it up.
SJmom
Sheep have two speeds: graze and STAMPEDE. Get out of the way when they are in second gear! Some ideas just never do go back into the box.
Buck
Well I appreciate your thoughtful reply, but I don't agree with everything you have put forward. Agreed the MSM takes every opportunity to show Paul in a bad light, but notice he is still causing these same media types to cover him up as much as possible. Interesting isn't it? So he must be doing something right. I disagree about him marketing himself, we have had too much of candidates being packaged as a consumer product. Ayway most of the time the pol you buy doesn't match up with his/her product label, so let's bag the consumer politics model. Let's talk about ideas, not some slick, grinning, white toothed commercial for the crap that's being pedalled.
That's the thing with Paul he talks about ideas that are sensible, reality based. Good lord the heresy of it all, :). So he will be pushed out of the MSM mercilessly and more money for his campaign might not help, censorship and fear trumps money. Paul is scaring a lot of folks with lots of power. As I have said before, I don't agree with all of his ideas, but he opens new avenues for discussion and reframes the debate so that things that are steadfastly ignored can be discussed.
Appreciate chatting with ya, take care
loveday
Paul Kemp said: "
Ron Paul is a Bible Thumper because he quotes biblical text in his discussions. A bible thumper is someone who believes in God, someone who reads the bible, someone that quotes the bible, someone who turns to the bible for guidance.
Ron Paul, in his speeches, cites chapter and verse from the Bible. For example:
Ron Paul has not hidden the fact that his policy recommendations are Bible-based, as evidenced by Ron Paul's speech at the recent Values Voter Summit.
I will not vote for a Bible-thumping life-long Republican politician from Texas. We've had enough of conservative Christian Texan politicians, like Bush. Bush ran the country into the deficit ditch so deep we may never get out.
When is the last time a Republican president balanced our national budget?
I'd be careful about criticizing the president these days.He can meet with his staff and decide to liquidate an American citizen with no due process or trial. Does this mean if we had an enlightened president he could decide to assassinate bank officers because corporations have the rights of citizens? If only.
Good lord, American liberals great white hope Canada depends on oil and gas exports to pay for its bloated welfare state, its another damn ponzi scheme. Watching Holmes on Homes anyone can see it too is a farce of sanctimonious leftists perpetrating a housing bubble consisting of oversized crappily built houses in the middle of a snow bank, what a joke.
The founders were against theocracy and the constitution is clear about separation of Church and State.I'm an Agnostic but I believe Ron Paul would defend freedom of religion or freedom of no religion. Don't worry about Ron Paul. He has no chance.His enemies include the military industrial complex, drug dealers,big unions,the media , banksters and wallstreet .However Ron Pauls views will look prescient in5or 10 yrs.
Asoka asks: "When is the last time a Republican president balanced our national budget?"
Dwight Eisenhower was last Republican President to preside over a balanced budget. He had a balanced budget in 1956 and 1957. Since then, there have been two presidents to preside over balanced budgets, LBJ in 1969 and Clinton in 1998 through 2001. During the last 40 years there have been five budget surpluses, all five were under Democratic Presidents: 1969, 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2001.
"There's something wrong with this man and he still has enough followers to really hurt us."
The only people dumber than the ones that voted for W the second time, are those who will vote for Obama the second time.
Been saying it for 20+ years: REELECT NOBODY!
Nice to see you finally lose your faith in Barack James. What were you thinking? Here's a recap of '68 for you, the guys in suits standing behind the podium and in front of the flags? Those guys are not on your side, no matter what they say or how charming they might be. Now don't do it again you very naughty boy.
And before you wet yourselves with glee Teebaggaz, Ron Paul is your Obama. Deal with it and support you local anarchists.
Herman Cain was asked who he wanted for Fed Chairman. Answered: Someone like Alan Greenspan. Exit Mr Cain, stage left please.
The whole system has to be redone. End the Fed and get back on the gold standard - if there is any gold left that is. A monumental task, and one that Ron Paul has devoted his life to. Does he stand a chance? I think they would assasinate him before letting him get in. They have already proven their willingness and ability to go to war over things that are merely perhipheral to their interests - like Vietnam. They certainly will not let America be taken from them as long as it has any wealth or power that they can siphon off.
So why do Anarchists march with Communists? Isn't kind of, well, Stupid? They should be marching with Libertarians, or the Tea Baggers as they are called by Douche Bags.
Wolfbay said: "Don't worry about Ron Paul."
LOL! I'm not worried. Obama is going to win in 2012 and the Republicans are helping him with each vote they cast against his jobs bill, with each vote they cast against jobs for police, firefighters, teachers, etc.
Ron Paul will be 78 in 2012. Too old to be POTUS. We don't need another Alzheimers President.
Neither corporate America nor the US military will allow anybody over 70 to be in a position of responsibility in their organizations. Ron Paul will not become president at age 78.
"...unless you are anti-gay, anti-black, anti-equality, anti-education, anti-woman, and anti-senior citizen."
"anti-" has such a negative connotation. Can't you be a little more accurate?
Brown doesn't have national experience, and that disqualifies him as a viable presidential candidate? Say what? It's usually a governor without national experience who gets elected these days, e.g., Carter, Reagan, W. Bush.
Brown first ran for president I believe in 1976. Though the mainstream media have mostly ignored him for the last three decades, he has been a national public figure since 1974. Actually, he may have too much experience to run for president, as political life in the real world has caused him to temper the b.s. rhetoric. Afraid he's too much in the habit of candor for American tastes.
To fight the Bankers is to fight the Jews. This is not so in essence - since most Jews aren't super rich Bankers. Rather, it is so by Choice: the Jews will always support their Super rich kinsmen no matter what they do.
If the Fed is ever audited, it will be found to be owned by the Rothschilds and their associates. Sure there are probably a few Gentiles - Satisfied? No? Ok, we'll also have to fight all the Gentile Elites who are in bed with them and allowed their ascendancy. You have to be satisfied with that because it's the Truth.
Asoka said:
I will not vote for a Bible-thumping life-long Republican politician from Texas. We've had enough of conservative Christian Texan politicians, like Bush. Bush ran the country into the deficit ditch so deep we may never get out.
***************************************************************
Here is one place, Asoka, where I emphatically support your viewpoint. Ron Paul claims to be Libertarian which means a strict Constitutionalist. However, a strict Constitutionalist believes that God has no place in discussions of government.
Period.
I, too, have come to distrust his "selective Constitutionalism" and , in no way, can I support Paul's candidacy for President. I also do not trust Paul to dismantle programs like Social Security in a humane way ... meaning that, at least, people getting a certain amount of money NOW won't just be starved. Paul's radical anti-governmentalism scares me.
E.
thanks Vlad for pointing me 2 Taki Mag...:
[A FRIEND OF MINE WENT TO CLINTONS GALA AND BUMPED INTO PAUL ALLEN FROM MICROSOFT FAME....]
William Jefferson Clinton signed NAFTA—perhaps the biggest single blow to the American middle and working classes in the past generation—into law. He bears partial blame for the subprime mortgage scandal.
When he left office, he left every American man, woman, and child nearly $5,500 deeper in debt than they were the day he took office.
Then there’s Whitewater and Vince Foster and Chinagate and impeachment and perjury and disbarment and dead witnesses and multiple suicides.
So along comes Bill Clinton to remind the world that he hangs out with HIV-positive kids at Cambodian orphanages and wants to prevent tobacco-related deaths in sub-Saharan Africa and how he helped small businesses in Harlem and really hates malaria and spends sleepless nights crying about Haiti’s plight.........................
Pardon me, but I don’t think I have a dog in this here fight...................................
How does the average American benefit from his excessive bursts of philanthropy? During the other night’s concert, I don’t remember anyone making a peep about the average American, nor so much as acknowledging that such a species exists.
For the 2007 tax year, the William J. Clinton Foundation took in around $130 million, over a third of which came from government grants.
So not only does the average non-cosmopolitan American taxpayer likely not benefit from his organization, they’re actually being forced to pay part of the bill for him to indulge his narcissistic messiah fantasies on his dusky, exotic, starving AIDS pets halfway around the globe................................
Read more: http://takimag.com/article/bill_clintons_decade_of_autofellatio/page_2#ixzz1b4gONPN1
Obamas :
anti-white,
anti-citizen,
anti-American,
anti-truth,
anti-fiscal responsibility....
and probably a few other things
For those who wonder about Obamas relatives theres a great article at TakiMag.
"However Ron Pauls views will look prescient in5or 10 yrs."
His views are prescient NOW, unchanged after thirty+ years. He predicted exactly what happened in 2008, in September of 2003! Come on people!
SJ Mom said:
I will be forever ticked off that we sent military aid to Libya. Unforgiveable. Now we're sending 100 or so soldiers into some other hell hole in Africa for dubious reasons. Our track record for nation building is a joke, we need to give it up.
******************************************************************
Such is the nature of American politics that I find Obama's implemented policies to be to the RIGHT of Eisenhower. However, one had to be very, very suspicious of Obama right from the get-go because he kept Defense Secretary Gates (Bush Jr.'s guy and a Republican), he kept Bernanke (chose by Bush Sr.), and some crooks from Clinton's administration like Larry Summers and Rubin.
What remains of the progressive Democrats is pretty much Dennis Kucinich and Bernie Sanders (who I think is great). Not only are the current Democrats supporting things like the Patriot Act but they keep re-upping the money for more military adventurism (Yemen? Oh, dear).
Both parties have gone to a very dark form of Rightist politics that seems to feature a lack of ACTION and a lack of care for the majority of financially suffering workers. America, in short, has already become a Corporate Fascist state. The two parties are just "wings" of a unified Kleptocracy.
E.
Azgog said:
As for violence it may be inevitable but I think it will be instigated/provoked by the State that represents and is commanded by the 1%. Before it comes to that we would be wise to take violent financial action. The big banks are going to FAIL, so MOVE YOUR MONEY now to a smaller, local, more stable community bank or credit union. They offer all the services of the big banks, direct deposit (if you are so lucky), etc. Don't worry about ATMs, remember you can get cashback at the store.
**************************************************************
Do you have any numbers about liquidity ratios of credit unions and community banks relative to large banks? By the way, not all of the very large banks made huge bets on CDO's and hand out subprime mortgages like candy. Comerica, for example, is pretty stable.
Any numbers you give would be very enlightening. Thanks.
E.
The "gold standard" will not change things one iota. The gov mafia will still debase currency, ad infinitum. They've done it throughout history and they'll do it again. Roseanne Barr in her recent interview with Max Keiser, mentioned the need for what she called a 'living currency'. That was a very astute comment to make, and actually I was shocked to hear it coming from someone like Roseanne Barr. Unfortunately, Max Keiser did not pursue that thought and idea and the implications thereof.
We had a living currency before. During the most prosperous time for Europe, the real currency that was being used was grain. This, btw, was also the currency that was being used in ancient Israel, the Israeli Shekel being a measurement of weight equal to 180 grains of barley.
the current resident of the white house is taking the high road approach much like herbert hoover did during the great depression.
but without the oil in the ground .
he is a one term president.
bye bye .
Anyone having any dealings with communists isn't an anarchist. We learned that lesson back in Spain.
No deals, no alliances. Anarchy is coming whether you like it or not. You can't afford a state.
If things get worse (a given), and nothing is resolved by spring, all it will take is one "match"...
You have to be satisfied with that because it's the Truth.
==
That's not the truth. The truth is that these so-called Jews (like the Rothschilds), are the go-between for the Vatican mafia. This is verifiable fact. The Rothschilds are hired managers. Hired men that came from nothing. They were made by Vatican money. And they are the public face behind which the Vatican with its vast ancient and modern imperial fortunes hides.
In 1307, Pope Clement V, based in France, with the help of the French king, Philip IV, took over European banking by destroying the Knights Templars. The Templars were the first to devise a world banking system. With the Templars burnt and disposed of as heretics by the Vatican, the Vatican mafia got direct control over the Templars' world banking network. EVERYTHING that you see today in world politics, especially relating to the New World Order, is an offshoot of Vatican banking and political machinations. The constant reincarnation of the Roman fascist Reich, is not a coincidence. It is and it was a Vatican pursuit since its inception. World domination and a one world government is what the Vatican is all about.
Bullshit! "We are broke as a country" Except when we want to spend trillions bombing other defenseless countries, torturing and killing their inhabitants, or spying upon our own people. It's our priorities that are bankrupt, our morals that are bankrupt! Anyway, what do you mean WE?
Deity on a Dinosaur, Peeples!
Put the fucking brakes on the False Hope Express.
Enough with the national savior foolishness.
What? You think things will return to "growth" and warm, wet cornucopian fantasies?
Give it up and get ready for privation the very best that you can, 'cause ain't NOBODY gonna "fix" this broke-down, used-up, rotted-from-the-inside wagon. Faith in the folks directly around you is what's gonna be "the decider". (Hopefully you don't have the misfortune of living next to THAT dumbfuck.)
The only way out is through; and if you join some Idjit Army, you'll be ground up and spit out.
Don't expect me to follow into your political bible-study group. Jeeeeezus, get a clue!
-Powder dry; head down.
Over 90 million Americans already bank at credit unions. CUs are non-profit, democratic and community based. They don't deal in credit swap derivatives and they don't pay their executives millions of dollars in bonuses. They have better capital ratios than banks. They are insured up to 250K per member by the Federal Gov't via the NCUSIF, which is more liquid than the FDIC.
B of A is going to FAIL. Stick with them if you want but as for me I'm voting with the Union.
"If things get worse (a given), and nothing is resolved by spring, all it will take is one "match"..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGDo1Jybs_I
"World domination and a one world government is what the Vatican is all about."
The people you denigrate {on this blog} have less in common with the Vatican than you do the so-called jews.
So why are you so hot and bothered? You're not interested in the truth, especially as it regards the web of Roman imperialist lies you call the "New Testament". What you're interested in is Roman imperialism, thieving, bloodlust for mass murder, and domination over others.
"Something unseen goes through them..."
As Albert Bartlett said: "The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function."
And that is the fuse: What we have is a failure to communicate--the exponent; pillar-by-pillar the U.S. financial underpinnings are crumbling, but those pillars are all interdependent: the disintegration of one pillar weakens the next which weakens the next, ad collapsium.
This thing is about to go hyperbolic--downward; it's going to seem to have come from nowhere; it's going to take masses of people by surprise; it's going to kill millions.
The one definitely positive outcome? Everything the oligarchs thought they "owned" will be worthless. Want revenge? Shoot the angry guy in the suit...
This IS a little spooky. It does smack of the 1960's and upcoming Kent State events. Ay Carumba
No time for anything right now.
I couldn't even read everyone's comments but I will add one thing to the discussion and JHK may not be wrong about Obama.
Last week I caught an interview where someone asked a commentator, what would be Obama's worst fear and the commentator said, "If he has to bail out the banks again....."
It could happen. Unfortunately for all of us we don't have the kind of leadership that will split up the banks!!
That will be our biggest downfall!
Juletta, we're in NE Ohio, and we had the best eggplants this year, I think because of the microclimate on the South side of the house with the brick wall retaining and radiating the heat from the Sun. Its true, though, successfull gardening (or farming) is an art as much as Science, because conditions in thesame place vary from year to year, and one has to have an intuition as well as technical skills to grow thingswell consistently, IMHO
Great piece!!! James-have you read Jim Harrison's "The Great Leader" yet? It is a must!!!
As Nassim Taleb has written over and over there is a Black Swan waiting to unfold its unforeseen wings. Yet, they have opened and it is today. The young Black Swan is Occupying Wall Street and Occupying Everywhere.
As you, James, are indicating, there could be another. That being a debacle on Wall Street. If that were to happen, the raucous audience is waiting out the door and on the street to take down the walls on which Humpty Dumpty has been sitting on for over 30 years.
Obama is inept. He has been getting his strings pulled by the corporate oligarchs, and very soon, those strings might melt and down he goes.
Actually, he should just leave. Let Democrats compete for the primary position, since Obummer is a drag on the nation.
http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com
Hi Juletta
Greetings from the Seattle area - I am not a farmer but I think that this year has been good for most crops. We are now in the midst of a multi-year La Nina weather pattern which typically yields a longer and cooler rainy season than normal. Another interesting fact is that this season has been really good for the salmon fisheries.
With our abundant waterways and relatively high quality farming soil, we may be better prepared for the long emergency than others. The salmon run at Issaquah creek (just 5 blocks from my home) was a real sight to watch and it looks as if at least fish will still be around to eat!!
Evenin' Fairguy. I'll agree this year the garden in NE was gangbusters. Still no frost. I think the mega rains even kept the bugs down. I usually get early blight on the 'matoes but they are still producing. perhaps the heavy rains kept the spores down, which seems like an oxymoron to me. Go figure
JHK wrote:
"If they don't go apeshit in the next two weeks ..."
Jim, it would be nice to see some real apeshit protesters in the USA. But, I don't see it happening. Things aren't bad enough just yet. Yes, some are really hurting, but it hasn't reached critical mass. I still think the USA has another 10 years left, maybe even more. But Peak Oil will take care of us nonetheless. I will say this, time lines are hard to call, but we (the USA) and world is in a Long Emergency - and most don't know it.
.888 guns per person ! I had no idea. wow I better dump a couple dozen! Oh shit, there I go. Now I am on the watch list again!
You knew better than to deny it, with proof.
Only tricks and no treats this Halloween.
"...it's going to seem to have come from nowhere; it's going to take masses of people by surprise;.."
"For in a single hour all this wealth has been laid waste." Revelation of John, Chapter 18
The three things that I think about..
1) Where is that 300 trillion in toxic worldwide CDO's going to land and how much of it do US banks own?
2) After the G/S book cooking that got Greece into the EU.. when does the can they've been kicking down the road hit the wall..
3) When will municipalities go bankrupt due to unfunded pension obligations...
Any 1 of the three will do us in.. all three are a perfect storm of mega proportions
Maybe you are on to something here. The majority of banksters are Christians!
They also have a conspiracy to get Nobel prizes. They control the Swedish selection committee so they award themselves the prize. Kunstler is probably in with the banksters also.He can't help it ,being a Jew.
"We played the game in 1968."
-jhk-
Yeah, we played the game in '68. The people lost and the corporations won then, too. And there were better slogans in '68.
Hell no, we won't go!
Ho Ho Ho Chi Min, Ho Chi Min is gonna win!
And what are the rhyming slogans of the OWSERS??
While I talk on my cell phone -
Please reduce my student loan!
End corporate personhood -
That would be really good!
==================
So while it may be that the US of A and our poor tortured Planet need a revolution -
I don't think this is going to be it.
And how is it that the wired in and socially networked OWSERS aren't using all of those internet connected 3G and 4G cellphones to organize something, ANYTHING - with 100's of thousands of participants interacting and voting?
http://debategraph.org/home
It's not about individual Christians, or even individual Catholics, it's about the Vatican and the Vatican mafia as an institution. The Vatican cares about Christians just as much as the Vatican siths, the Rothschilds, care about Jews, that is to say, they don't. These are professional parasites, and it's not by coincidence. Because the Vatican and the Central Banks are one and the same. The Vatican owns the Central Banks. They are the Central Banks.
Anyway, I think Dmitry Orlov has it right. Their time is coming to an end.
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2011/10/crossroads-lecture-on-fall-of-american.html
"Something unseen goes through them, perhaps like the pheromone that transforms a field full of grasshoppers into a ravening swarm of locusts. Being people, they cannot take wing. But they can press forward and up against things, and they can surely break the glass in those sleek curtain-wall buildings"
Great descriptive writing, which is why I read the blog in the first place. No matter what the numbers among the protestors. No revolution is in the offing. Status quo will prevail. Just accept it.
Remember the "riots" in London and other English cities this past summer? The cops came down like a ton of bricks on those lads. You can count on that in New York and other cities when the boys utilize their overabundant testosterone.
The OWS has achieved a small victory in that it lasted long enough and grew large enough that the political powers and their media flunkies couldn't ignore it. But what now? It looks like the ruling elite in North America at least will pay as little attention as possible and hope that the OWS will melt away with the first snow flakes. The OWS movement needs to decide if it can develop stategies to ride out winter or should it take this small victory and use winter to bring its disparate groups together for a spring push when primary season opens in the U.S. Should the OWS movement try to make a pitch to the portion of the 99% that are fipping channels between reality t.v., sitcoms, or sports and are now just realizing what they are watching isn't the movie channel but a "real event". Does the OWS even attempt to appeal to mainstream media which cannot understand a movement which represents a multiplicity of issues and groups which don't fit into their neat 30 second sound bites. How can the OWS convey that the current model of corporate governance affects virtually every aspect of our lives? These and dozens more questions will need to be addressed by the OWS movement and soon. Sort of like my dilemma out here in an outpost of the empire do I put the tackle box away till spring or keep it out and prepare to do some ice fishing?
As a boomer, I have to say that my generation is probably the worst in history. We have saddled our children & grandchildren with a debt that they can never repay. I'd like to see the OWS movement become more focused on this issue. At this point, I think an intergenerational war is unavoidable. Social Security & pensions,even for those already on them, are not safe.
Also, our systems of production have become so efficient that jobs can now be done with far fewer people. Businesses hire as few people as they can get away with and work their employees to death. We can never consume all that can be produced. Hence, high unemployment will be a problem for as long as the eye can see!
Here in Berkeley our summer was so cold, windy and foggy that only the potatoes, cabbage and kale did well. Did get a few strawberries. Forget the tomatoes, peppers and beans.
Jill in Berkeley
You certainly picked an accurate handle for yourself.
The Internet.
Lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala!
Azgog said:
Over 90 million Americans already bank at credit unions. CUs are non-profit, democratic and community based. They don't deal in credit swap derivatives and they don't pay their executives millions of dollars in bonuses. They have better capital ratios than banks. They are insured up to 250K per member by the Federal Gov't via the NCUSIF, which is more liquid than the FDIC.
B of A is going to FAIL. Stick with them if you want but as for me I'm voting with the Union.
******************************************************************
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. Now I will do my
own due diligence.
E.
There is a bird in poem by T.S. Eliot who says that man cannot bear much reality, but the bird is mistaken. A man can endure the entire weight of the universe for 80 years. It is unreality that he cannot bear.
Time's cyclical descent into insanity is well documented in American culture.
I talk to people all the time who admire me "despite the fact" I'm an American.
I don't know any of them, but they read my blog posts.
They know I love women, in particular, one woman. One woman above all others.
Today, I will marry her.
Via con dios, muchachos.
The next time we meet, I may have a family. I know most of you would think that they couldn't possibly justify reproducing.
But sometimes, you find someone worth reproducing... for THEIR half of the equation. If the kid ends up with my demon half, my mark of cain half, my SATAN HALF, then we'll have the kid from the OMEN.
As for me, its off to the rubbish bin- the GREAT TRASH BIN IN THE SKY... my organs will be out for donation... spare parts to fill the family garage... I'll be gone, like a blink of an eye.
Sayonara, friends.
Goodbye. It's been great chatting with you! All of you- I mean it.
Au'Revior... Paris is beautiful- at least... this time of year.
And eyesore of the month! OH THANK HEAVEN FOR SEVEN ELEVEN....
Paintings: well, I'm liking what I'm seeing there. There will be enough to like on JHK's site for a long time to come.
Oh well. I should be going.
Say my thanks to all of you.
Thanks very much.
I'll leave you with a prediction:
Ron Paul in 2016.
And to everyone else:
FUCK THE REPUBLICANS GIVE ME MY RON PAUL
Christianity: A prayer in search of an answer.
Is it 32?
33% of Americans STILL believe in JEASUS CHRIST.
As a retrospective, the analysts say, "The religion bubble, like all bubbles must eventually burst".
(Luckily they pay no taxes- which if you think about it means there is a lot of real estate locked up in churches)
Oh well.
There's always next year.
OR the year after that, or the year after that.
Ron Paul could reach his nineties with the administration of modern medicine.
I understand the man as a Christian scientist, in that he doesn't step beyond the boundaries of the book. The book didn't mention stem cells, so he won't. He'll say something about abortion, maybe once, but the Bible isn't a constitution. The Bible didn't say "abortion must be illegal".
He might turn out to be sane.
I don't know, we'll see what the Republicans vote for. You know its going to be Romney.
Romney's had the nomination since two tuesdays ago.
Romney would make a great American president. Unlike any of the other candidates he doesn't follow Old World Religion.
Mormons are more American than all of Christian America. They made up their bullshit RIGHT HERE.
Rick Perry looks like dogshit.
Don't networks put pancake on or something? Shellac?
I'm no spring chicken, but love erases all laugh lines. Nothing smooths the curves like love. All is grey in the eyes of love. It is the state of pure honey acceptance.
Ron's embraced his inner Hobbit. Thats why he needs a pulpit.
Hes not a phony. He can't pull it off.
Of course, Republicans can't get it together enough to nominate someone genuine.
Thus we've come to the write in ballot.
Now, I have no faith in the system and less in any of you.
But who cares? The bottom line is that nothing matters.
Politics is a lark.
We have only tomorrow, and the tomorrows after that.
Of course, the obstinate idiocy of the American public could outlast almost anyone who tried to break into the executive office.
We are not an opportune species, are we (the American body politic).
Looking forward to the new read Jim! Guess I've got to get one of those new fangled electromatic readers.
Had the opportunity to join the OWS crowd (about 3,000+ not counting the 100 or so cops surrounding us)this past Saturday in Phoenix, Az. For the most part the group was well behaved, nobody was breaking up the furniture or engaging in lawn sex. Oh well, must of got there too early for that part of the demonstration.
Seems to me the dominant themes were; too much "greed" (in general by all, corporate in specific) and legalize everything. I had my sign; "Occupy Democracy not Corporatism". Had a guy ask "WTF, what does that mean?" Really, which one word do you understand that's ((hint) not) monosyllabic? Think, to inhabit or to possess. Corporatism as in the 21st Century version not the 19th Century version, big diff. Still don't get it? Boy, we're got a major climb up the ol' learning curve in this country.
If this were France we would all just go on strike and watch a few cars burn in the street while enjoying a glass of wine and munching on a cheese crescent at the local cafe.
Still it was good to see people of all ages braving the 95 degree heat for the sake of the Union. Given that most of the locals have already packed away the sunblock it made for a dangerous time indeed.
It'll be interesting to see what happens this spring...OWS is planning an April rally in D.C.
In the mean time, to keep it light and to remind everyone of the wonderful place we all occupy, enjoy today's musical selection;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ABIkH7m0s
And keep it positive, we'll need every sane and able person on deck shortly.
That is what I think, any violence will be instigated by the state, then all hell may break lose. and you know who will take the blame.
Why did the protests in Rome turn violent ? because Italy is worse off than Greece because it has:
1) A huge UNPERCEIVED and people are UNAWARE of it, housing bubble with prices of rents (1,000 euros a month) to salary (800 euros a month) in the Major Cities more than EVEN ONE! And prices (300,000 euros for 50 sqm or 700 sqft house) to salaries (10,000 euros a year) 30 to 1. Talk about "affordability"!;
2) Unemployment, no hope of work at all, the country is going down the toilet fast, nothing left to do for millions of young kids, they will just smash the country up;
3) A huge dominant majority of reactionary, right wing voters repressing any kind of change and completely supporting Berlusconi because they desperately want to protect their Real Estate Prices no matter what;
4) No money left for anything, huge corruption, no hope for any possible improvement in any possible area;
Hence, the country will go down the toilet and explode (and watch out when it does because they have 1,500 billion dollars of debt that won't be paid back to anyone anymore, good luck with that).
A lot of their problems seem similar to what is happening in the USA.
The solution would be:
1) Cheap Rents (not more than 200 dollars a month for 80 sqm or 1,200 sq ft house);
2) The government hires 5 million kids in Research and Development and Science, even just to do nothing at all, just give them a free salary of 800 dollars a month;
3) Huge public-private projects, skyscrapers, Rockets to Mars, and such.
AMEN.
And what is really needed is a huge worldwide economic deflation, all prices of all goods should go way, way down. Rents 200 dollars a month, salaries 800 dollars, free health care and college, and cheap everything, deflation is the only way to go, deflate, deflate, low prices ever lower prices of all! I saw the assets of the major companies valued at thousands of billions of dollars and such, those numbers are made up, fake, cannot correspond to reality, there is no way that Fannie May has 3,000 billion dollars in assets, it is pretend money, it cannot correspond to real exchanges and jobs, it would be equivalent to 30 million jobs at 10,000 dollars a year for ten years, no way that that potential of exchange is really in the system, no way jose, erase all the fairy tale numbers, GET REAL!
There is the potential for a lot of fairy tale, "service economy", "Information Workers" like exchanges (just like blogs and facebook and cell phone chat and meetings and such) but most of these in the long run won't put food on the table anymore, most will reveal their optional, not necessary nature, and that is why we need the government to hire millions and give them a free salary even to just do nothing at all (and cheap rents). From: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=176934
AMEN.
From:
From: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=176934
[quote="Flannel Jesus"]Your solutions don't make sense. People don't have enough money so RAISE THE TAXES ON EVERYONE SO WE CAN GO TO MARS! There's a reason why most of your threads are just you preaching to yourself.[/quote]
You don't have to raise the taxes, just give the trillions of dollars the Federal Reserve constantly prints to new workers instead of the banks and already super rich, hand them out to millions of new workers that the government (and only the government can hire since a private person hiring would require them to "produce" or "work" or "be productive", all things that are no longer necessary or operating anymore, obsolete since a Technological Economy has made most work obsolete, not needed, has optimized and increased labor productivity up to the point that you need very few people to do the real work and all of that Automatic Production, Automatic For The People can support many others just doing pretend work or even simply, bluntly and proudly "Nothing At All") decides to hire to do Nothing At All and also for Research and Development and Science and to build Skyscrapers and Rockets to Mars.
We need more government, not less, we need the government to hire and step up to solve the problems, not the market and the private enterprise and corporations since they cannot solve these problems, only an abstract, all powerful government (you may call it socialist) can do the trick.
And anyways, we need more taxes, ever more and higher taxes as taxes are for the common good, for the general society, it is the only mechanism available to redistribute the wealth from the rich to the poor, the wealthy won't give it out by themselves, they must be forced by the government and the only way is by taxing them, tax them hugely, tax them heavily and tax all, ever more taxes and ever more millions hired by the government. That is my solution. Do you have any better idea ?
Probably not, I am the only one who has a concrete easy to follow and understand solution, I don't hide my solution beyond abstractions and indirections that don't mean anything at all like "more education" or "more competition" or "more small businesses" since all of those fluff solutions really simply mean, we won't do anything at all, just leave everything as it is (as it is in favor of the rich only).
[quote="Flannel Jesus"][quote="nameta9"]You don't have to raise the taxes, just give the trillions of dollars the Federal Reserve constantly prints to new workers[/quote]
Jesus christ, your OP says "DEFLATION NEEDED" but your solution involves deliberate inflation. You're clueless.[/quote]
There would be no inflation in my solution because deflation would follow the low salaries the government pays forcing all goods to cost appropriately, the salary is 800 dollars a month, dude, no inflation here, only deflation big time.
Can anybody lend me a few grand to buy a Kia micro car - the banks laugh at me. I need it for a little business I set up collecting wild honey and delivering it to my friends and neibours.
What the fuck, maybe i will wait a few weeks and just take it anyway. Wonder if i will be able to get gas for it?
From:
http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=176934
[quote="ags83"]Spend some time more time researching and learning how reality works. Here is a good starting point .... http://mises.org/.[/quote]
Do you think that there is an "External Reality" that is working objectively, independently from us, our mind, our models, how we decompose and define its entities ? Especially in issues like "Economics", there is no "Reality", it is a man made construction, an ideology, an invention, a program that people follow, as in "Man is the Infinitely Programmable Machine". The economy works by Design, according to how someone decided it should be Designed, according to a set of arbitrary rules of interaction and engagement that achieved a consensus through "Brainwashing", aka "Programming People to Look at Things and Interact in a Predetermined Fashion, Just Because", for no deeper reason than the dominating powers relationship (and therefore ideological and psychological relationships) that are operating and that has achieved the maximum consensus through Mass Media and Education (as a device to brainwash people), it is a totally programmable system, it can be run according to any rules, any interactions, any definitions none of which is better or superior to any other, etc.
Today most people are brainwashed with a fairy tale construction of economy based on "The Invisible Hand of the Market" and other such BS, there is no invisible hand, there are no indirect mechanism such as "less taxes create jobs", "new jobs will be created by small businesses", they are all false, make believe causes and effects that are very convenient to use by the dominating class against the working classes, read all my past posts.
I think we can use a good mixed system, both private and public, so when people want to think that they are Superstars and Heros developing new breakthrough companies and technologies (it is all mostly a make believe thing, all those novelties are already know, mostly a hype machine) give them the venture capital and set them up in Silicon Valley, but for all the other millions, give them Free Salaries, Cheap Rents, make them proudly do "Nothing At All", build Rockets to Mars, Research and Development and build Skyscrapers and such.
Now is a moment when the government has to hire millions to kick start it up again, and in a sense, to save the Capitalist Economy from itself, to save it from being a "Victim of its Own Success", from being too extreme and optimizing too many jobs away.
Only the government can hire since a private person hiring would require them to "produce" or "work" or "be productive", all things that are no longer necessary or operating anymore, obsolete since a Technological Economy has made most work obsolete, not needed, has optimized and increased labor productivity up to the point that you need very few people to do the real work and all of that Automatic Production, Automatic For The People can support many others just doing pretend work or even simply, bluntly and proudly "Nothing At All".
And anyways, we need more taxes, ever more and higher taxes as taxes are for the common good, for the general society, it is the only mechanism available to redistribute the wealth from the rich to the poor, the wealthy won't give it out by themselves, they must be forced by the government and the only way is by taxing them, tax them hugely, tax them heavily and tax all, ever more taxes and ever more millions hired by the government. That is my solution. Do you have any better idea ?
Congratulations on the upcoming nuptials!
I have always enjoyed your perspectives, even if you ARE an "exceptional" American crank. ;o)
I'll miss the scathing screeds on Authoritarian mindsets (or lack thereof).
Enjoy yourself, whatever you do; some good wine and lots of laughs are wished for you and yours.
If it should come down to it, join the Resistance; they've got a proud tradition of it over yonder! Reprisals? What do we care for your stinking reprisals? Vive la vie; vive l'amour; La mort attend toujours!
;o)
[quote="Flannel Jesus"]Nameta apparently thinks resources are infinite and the government just magically has all this stuff to give away, and they're keeping it from us. Sorry to break the news to ya, but it's not quite like that.[/quote]
No, it is People, Property Owners, but especially Corporations with their hugely inflated Market Value and Assets Value that think they are hugely Richer than what they are. It is the necessity to maintain such a hugely inflated Assets Value marking that corporations and even so many private citizens have that inflated Real Estate values way out of proportion worldwide. And people also want hugely inflated salaries and such, such as doctors in the USA making 300,000 dollars a year, totally insane amount of money, they should not make more than 80,000 dollars a year tops, and the same with all things Health Care and College and you name it. Worldwide salaries are now standard: from about 100 to 800 dollars a month, this is what salaries should be for most people in all countries, except for some really talented superstars (and they do not number in the tens millions worldwide, maybe a few million tops).
As I said, I saw the assets of the major companies valued at thousands of billions of dollars and such, those numbers are made up, fake, cannot correspond to reality, there is no way that Fannie May has 3,000 billion dollars in assets, it is pretend money, it cannot correspond to real exchanges and jobs, it would be equivalent to 30 million jobs at 10,000 dollars a year for ten years, no way that that potential of exchange is really in the system, no way jose, erase all the fairy tale numbers, GET REAL!
Is it my unenviable fate to be bracketed by endless reams of endless redundancies from a mind even more unsound than my own?
Hi-dee Ti-dee, Krise Al-mi-dee...
We shall see.
[quote="turtle"][quote="Flannel Jesus"]well, i'm not really confused. i just meant that was his apparent goal.[/quote]
nameta9 was your goal to confuse us?[/quote]
It took me a lot of time to figure this all out, I may even be completely wrong, who cares, it is a kind of puny hobby I have, I could care less about this or anything. But the point is, there are some really deep contradictions operating, there is something hugely wrong in all of the models, proposals, ideas that have been flying around in the last years about the "Economy", "Growth", "Competition", "Innovation", "Productivity", you name it, and also, all of the formulas the FED and BCE and governments propose to "solve the problems" seem way off bat (fire government workers (while the exact opposite should be done, hire government workers by the millions just to give them a salary), cut services, save money here and there, etc.). I see these large scale trends operating more than anything else and determining most of the problems:
1) Technological Economy eliminating jobs faster than replacing them no matter what (Optimizations, Robots, Internet, Innovations, you name it, third world labor at 100 dollars a month, etc.) and no one has any answers or even barley recognizes this;
2) Huge Real Estate Inflation worldwide and the entire worldwide economy paying heavily for it and will keep on paying heavily for it for years to come (JAPAN anyone ? and CHINA is producing an even crazier Bubble building millions of homes that are way out of reach of their puny salaries, go figure);
3) The entire idea of "Jobs" and "Creating Jobs" is flawed because most jobs are an "Option" a "Service" an aesthetical choice, it is all based on fluff, non necessities, make believe things, now how on earth are jobs supposed to be created if they are just fun and games ?
The corporations operate in a separate circuit compared to society as a whole, they are correct in firing people, outsourcing, whatever and the more they fire people the better, who cares, their goal is make a profit, but the greater society finds itself with more and more idle people, what to do ?
So the only logical solution to all of this is Cheap Rents, All The Governments Worldwide hire tens of Millions of people to do bluntly and proudly "Nothing At All", but also, since you have such a huge Excess Productive capacity at hands with millions upon millions of people available, Skyscrapers, Rockets to Mars, you name it, Bus systems, Research and Development, etc. The system has so much Excess Productive Capacity that it can build millions of skyscrapers and Rockets to Mars and also hire millions of people to do "Nothing At All" and just look out of the windows in all of the Skyscraper Offices.
Yep, guess so.
Let's see how loooooong the next piece of drooling drivel is going to be...
BTW, I much preferred the "designer fashion" idiocy; at least no one was tempted to actually READ that shit.
Knustler's assumption that OWS is some kind of violent undisciplined mob is very flawed IMO. I have participated in my local Ann Arbor Occupy, and have done a lot of research on the other occupies, ans everything I have seen shows there are many thoughtful people participating with non violent solutions to banker malfeasance, lack of citizen democracy, and the unsustainable path we are on.
James ought to HOPE OWS can help to make a better world, and a soft landing from our current dire situation, while a "Long Emergency" and a "World Made by Hand," of nouveau plantations may make interesting fiction, IMO we are better off hoping for a more fair, participatory, democratic outcome that preserves some measure of convivial civilization.
I do not find the demonizing of the Wall Street Club members helping toward a remedy to heal the harm that stems from their poor behavior. It is too much like all the dehumanizing that fosters rationalizing violence against and the exploitation of our fellow beings. Hating one’s enemy will not conquer one’s enemy but only make the hater more like his enemy. It is not wise to expect different behavior from people whose lives and influences have programmed them to become selfish, arrogant and greedy. If you were in their shoes with their life experiences, would you not be acting pretty much as they are? Empathetic feelings serve the situation much better.
Rather than embracing the attitude that these people have lost their humanity permanently and deserve to be destroyed, I prefer to see them in a different way. I think it is more true that these individuals suffer from a social disease, a cultural paradigm addiction, or that they are simply acting childish with great cost to others. You know what they say, “Your only young once but you can be immature your whole life.” There but for the grace of God go I. This way of thinking evokes in me more understanding and tolerance. These serve as healing balms. I also think attitudes of this sort help us all to awake up and grow up and treat one another in ways that will bring about the peace and plenty that we now ignorantly fight over.
As is the case with any protests, the powers that be will simply try to out wait the protestors. When the fox gets into the chicken coop, there is a lot of flapping & squawking, but eventually the chickens settle back down and are available for more harvesting. Obviously, if it is sustained, there's a better chance of something happening but I'm an old cynic and don't really expect much to come of it. However, I'm gonna send a few bucks in the naive hope that it will help somewhere along the line. The powers that be have a lot of experience dealing with this sort of thing, and they count on the public having the memory (or lifespan) of a mayfly.
from fire andrea mitchelll:
! Someone get one of John Boehner’s boxes of kleenex and send it to someone at Park51.
The radical Muslim group that wants to build their victory mosque, but is far behind in their back rent now.
If you can believe it, the Park51 Victory Mosque project was only paying a minuscule $2,750 per month for rent for that old Burlington Coat factory building.
Yes, just $2,750 per month! Well, that is until the property was appraised and the rent due from these radical Muslims is much higher.
Con Edison claims Park51 owes them $1.7 in back rent. Park51 is claiming they “only” owe Con Edison $881,000.
Supposedly from some other sites, aside from the CNN one, Con Edison has told the Muslims to pay up or be evicted. Right now though, Con Edison is “hopeful” to get a deal done.
I have always figured that withdrawing from American society, to establish a self-sufficient culture apart-from is a great approach.
As someone infinitely wiser said, "Problems can't be solved at the same level of thinking that created them"
Nobody has dared called drones a terrorist weapon and since O-MAN loves them lets hope they aren't used when that unseen thing goes through a field of grasshoppers and they become a ravening swarm of locusts.
For being people, they cannot take wing.
A crazy thought, except the part about drones being terrorist weapons it is. Yet nothing O-MAN has done has shown any love for progressive views so can you really say?
Perhaps the grasshoppers should challenge the democratic nomination. That would ruffle some feathers. It would be another rhyme with history, Chicago 1968. A lot of ape shitting went on there.
YET ONE MORE OUTSOURCING
US Commission on Fine arts.110 million dollar statue
Others have read another concern into the commission’s comments: the sculptor selected for the job, Lei Yixin, is Chinese, and the sculpture is being made in China of buff-colored stone.
(The executive architect for the memorial, Ed Jackson Jr., said granite of that hue and quantity was not available elsewhere.) This “outsourcing,” as critics have called it, has spawned an angry Web site, www.kingisours.com, and an investigation by the inspector general of the Interior Department.
The high degree of furor correlates to the number of people alive who remember Dr. King and feel a sense of private ownership over that memory.
Another factor is that amid the founding fathers, Civil War generals and eminent philanthropists, there are still few traditional statues of blacks.
Hey Jim, half the Obama Administration is from Wall Street, mostly Goldman Sachs, including his Chief of Staff Gentleman Bill Daley. Not a week goes by when Obama himself isn't in NYC hosting yet another $35,000 per plate fund raiser to get himself re-elected. The truth is, Wall Steets' got the awesome power of the US Government backing it up, beginning with Tim Geitner and Bernanke ready to bail them out if things go south again; they could care less about some raggedy college kids with face paint and banging drums in a park in lower Manhattan. The NYPD will make short work of them soon enough.
--WSP7
A couple of weeks ago Q said the protest movement would fizzle out before the World Series.
Now Occupy Wall Street is in 900 cities on four continents. Even in my small town of 10,000 there is an OWS movement targeting Bank of America.
Chris Hedges has covered mass movements as a war correspondent in places like Berlin and Prague. Here is what he says.
The police know very well that they are part of the 99%, not the 1%.
One other thing, these protests don't seem to be having much effect on the markets as the Dow is up about 1000 points since they began.
Asoka the police have been militarized and will do what they are ordered to do.
--WSP7
The psychic-emotional evolution of a "mob" is often unpredictable, but in my view I don't see much violence by the OWSers anytime soon, not enough bloodshed to fill a one gallon paint can.
Maybe some cracked skulls and burning eyes, along with some burning cars and smashed glass, but not much more.
If the OWSers are targeting Wall street, they should also be targeting Obama, but they are not.
Herman Cain has the talent to turn his gaffes into
"jokes". His business "talents" also enabled him to shut down more than half of the GP outlets, putting a few thousand people out of work. A nice slice indeed.
In another context, some say that once you've tried black, you won't go back. Could it be? A black Democrat and then a black Republican as president? Black, back to back? The times are tumultuos enough that I'm beginning to think it's possible.
It all presages and at the same time continues the ongoing "Suicide of a Superpower", Pat Buchanan's incisive new book.
Laurence J. Peter did fine job in the 70's delivering his observation that in a hierarchical-thinking society, one tends to rise to the level of his incompetence. Examples of this are ever more destructive and misery-inducing. What paradigm or structure will replace our current competitive rat race? What will foster the creative problem solving we sorely need and replace the wars and conflicts we now imagine are the only way to attain our personal, limited desires (in the name of freedom)? The OWSers are experimenting with just the thing: direct democracy, consensus (requiring patience, tolerance and understanding), and collect wisdom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dtD8RnGaRQ&feature=player_embedded#!
WSP7, your probably know there are currently serving military, reserves, National Guard, peace officers, and veterans who swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic ... and they meant it.
Their oath is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, not to the bankers, not to the fund managers on Wall Street, and they will keep their oath.
Their numbers are growing. They may be "militarized," but they won’t “just follow orders."
Herman Cain stands no chance of being elected president - No Chance. He has already alienated the Latino(a) vote and he will lose New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada and possibly Arizona if nominated.
Herman Cain is just foil to move Romney to the right. Which in itself will prove disastrous when Romney's past legislative endorsements are juxtaposed against his preposterous anti-Obamacare rhetoric. The flip-flops ads will write themselves on that accord.
President Obama is NOT the second coming of Jimmy Carter and there is no Ted Kennedy to divide the party with a nomination challenge. Oh and one more thing: Elizabeth Warren is going to run Centerfold Boy out of the Senate - bet on it.
Buck Stud said: "He [Cain] has already alienated the Latino(a) vote and he will lose New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada and possibly Arizona if nominated."
==============
Obama may have some trouble with the Latino(a) vote also. Obama has deported 400,000 undocumented immigrants, more than any other president in American history.
Eventually it will go the way of Greece, but not likely until more stench visibly emanates from Wall Street and Washington and it becomes obvious to even the common Joe just how bankrupt the US really is. This will occur simultaneously with pension losses and many other cutbacks, increasing unemployment, etc. and maybe even a stock market crash and dollar collapse. Then we will have burning street tires, Molotov cocktails and broken windows. For now there is peace, and it is a great thing that an empire, regarded the world over as the guiding light of apathy, has inspired FURTHER movements of increasing voice and awareness.
LET MY PEEPHOLE GO: A Review of Presidential Candidates, describes some of the alternatives of change we now have to look forward to.
http://finesmellingpress.blogspot.com
That's a beautiful post, Ront.
That said, the problem with Wall Street, the Central Banks, the big Corporations, the Government Mafia, the Vatican, etc., is that they are a criminal syndicate. They are criminals who made their criminality "legal" by way of philosophical, moral, economic, and judicial corruption. They have debased everything they touched. They have turned human beings into little more than animals. As such, though I understand your sentiment, I believe these criminals need to be treated exactly for they are. They are diseased souls, and I see zero chance for them to ever be reformed. They need to be permanently removed from society. And the system that they created needs to be repudiated and dismantled.
Those who are kind to the cruel, in the end are really cruel to the kind.
That was me ! I am so funny.
I think it was Einstein.
Yeah I actually never felt a part of
American Culture and I am as white as
you can get. Born and raised here in CA.
I've thought I was the strange one, but it
seems to be most every one else. The
whole set up has always seemed like so much
wasted energy. Driving to and fro, and
everything so far apart, etc.
."888 guns per person ! I had no idea. wow I better dump a couple dozen! Oh shit, there I go. Now I am on the watch list again"!
Hey RT, when and how did you get off the list?"
Evenin Jammer, Gettin' off the list was easy. When the OWS movement started,gun totin' Yankees got tossed off and the PTB started eyeballin' all the rabel rowsers at the Wall St protests. The data base was overloaded so they cut me loose. Now there are .888 signs per person in the USA. I am in full support of the protests but I can't get the time off to travel down to NYC. I talk with my money though and deal with a small community bank which is privately held and my local credit union. Mostly cash also. No credit card balance.
Thanks for the breakdown RT. Greylock Credit by chance?
Speaking of protests,on Oct. 18, 1968, the United States Olympic Committee suspended two black athletes, Tommie Smith and John Carlos, for giving a "black power" salute as a protest during a victory ceremony in Mexico City.
For those who do not know Smith and Carlos were American athletes...
from Political Cesspoool.................
what Buchanan finds so alarming.
Buchanan recalls Bill Clinton’s address to the 1998 graduation class of Portland State University where he told them that their children and grandchildren would inhabit a country that “In little more than 50 years, there will be no majority race in the United States. No other nation in history has gone through demographic change of this magnitude in so short a time….”
As Buchanan rightly notes,
This episode is astonishing.
Here was a president of the United States telling a largely white student body the day is coming when their own kind will cease to be the majority in a country where the majority rules. Most peoples would sit in stunned silence at such a revelation, or rise in rage at the prospect. The Portland State students cheered the news of the coming minority status to which they and their children have been consigned by their government.
Imagine a Mexican president or Japanese prime minister lecturing to Mexican or Japanese college students and telling them they should welcome their coming minority status in their own nation. Would they greet the news with such enthusiastic zeal?
“Ethnomasochism,” writes Buchanan, “the taking of pleasure in the dispossession of one’s own ethnic group, is a disease of the heart that never afflicted the America of Andrew Jackson, Theodore Roosevelt, or Dwight Eisenhower.”
Buchanan punctures a hallowed sacred cow of liberals and conservatives alike: the belief in universal equality.
He exposes the futility in the various attempts to equalize intelligence and close the “racial gap” in IQ. In fact, one could argue that.....................................................................................
Whooptydamndoo. What does bachman know about the America of Jackson, (slaves, non voting rights of woman and blacks )Roosevelt (segregation, non voting rights for women and blacks ) Eisenhower ( segregation, lynchings, non voting rights for blacks )Her smug remark... "is a disease of the heart that never afflicted the America of Andrew Jackson, Theodore Roosevelt, or Dwight Eisenhower" exposes her as a rhetorical blowhard. Pun intended
"Mormons are more American than all of Christian America. They made up their bullshit RIGHT HERE."
-bustin J-
Good stuff, BustinJ, you old Atheist, you.
Best of luck to you and your bride.
In my mind, you'll always be a, #1 prime, member of the Cluster Fuck Nation.
Yours in Joyous Argument,
P2C
No Jam Man, the Polish National Credit Union. Pollacks,are big in these parts,sorry my Polish friends ;o). They still have their First Communion money. I feel bad cuz they scrimp and save and don't get shit for interest. Fuck the multi-national banks! Why would anyone deal with them?
JHK: I was/am watching the Republicans debate and they have the answer: drill, and mine everywhere because there is a ton of oil,bring back faith to America( Jesus only), build more nuclear power, cut all funding departments from the Federal Government except the military budget, no cuts to the police state, because Iran will attack us if we cut. OH That George Orwell!
Ron Paul was great asking how stupid Iran cannot attack us, we need to cut the defense budget,and of course all Socialist programs and tree hugging depts will be removed. So Happy Days are here again, only if the Republicans get elected.. May Zeus bless ya'all. So soon energy problem will bne solved and you will need a new idea to write about.
RT wrote: "They still have their First Communion money" Absolutely love it...
Black power salute, I saw it live.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocu-llaGEnY&feature=related
Who can forget Bob Beamon and his high jump? Man could those bros. run. You would think a Detroit K9 unit was on their ass! I'm only kidding. ;o)
The “Beamonesque” long jump , sorry. I was confused with the Fosbury flop, same year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id4W6VA0uLc
"Tell us *general*, is it *party time*?!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBpyichRWo0
I was into "Men at Work" What is a vega-mite sandwich? How does it taste? I can get it on line and have always been curious.
17th, 6:30pm... (working)
Anti Soak writes:
" He exposes the futility in the various attempts to equalize intelligence and close the “racial gap” in IQ. "
Speaking of unequal intelligence, are you trying to fill the moribund shoes of Vlad Krantz?
Let's just call a spade a spade and tell it like it is Anti Soak: Leave the race-baiting to one far more intelligent, entertaining, and erudite that yourself.
Deal?
Got a "Hold for Review" comment for my response to you, explaining Vegamite, among other things. Think I'm outta here too. See ya C'fners!
Something tells me we've met before.
Occupy Wall Street has very specific, actionable, American goals.
CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT" THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT.
USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS
CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION
CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE.
CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION
CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS.
CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED.
ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS.
Know nobody can whine "but what do they want"? Why aren't they directing themselves toward the current government, instead of Wall Street.
It's not either/or. OWS is doing both.
GOOD LUCK IN GETTING STRANGERS TO FOLLOW YR ORDERS!
GAWD YOU MUST BE STOOPID.
Tucsonspur said:
It all presages and at the same time continues the ongoing "Suicide of a Superpower", Pat Buchanan's incisive new book.
******************************************************************
Thanks for the information about Buchanan's book. I liked "A Republic, Not An Empire" as well. The title of his recent book says it all. Between the untrue politically correct slogans of the left and the damage they've caused and the unchecked, venal capitalism of the right, sane people of moderate impulses are becoming as rare as the Spotted Owl.
The left believes in anti-meritocracies in schools and businesses. That's why good students don't get challenged and the weakies with poor decorum get patted on the head and told that they, too, can be a nuclear physicist. The result is that our edge in research and development has gone down the proverbial toilet.
The right, while yelling "class warfare", hope that the American people don't realize that there is ALREADY A CLASS WARFARE AGAINST THE MIDDLE CLASS BY THE UPPER CLASS. It's the corporate boardrooms and shareholders of multinationals who are scouring the world to obtain "shareholder value" by seeing which races are willing to accept the most toxic working and living conditions.
We ARE committing national suicide and it's unstoppable because decent politicians are absent from both sides of the aisle. Wall Street has taken over politics so thoroughly that it effectively IS the government and they damned well know it because they're out their buying protection by soaking elections in PAC money.
E.
I saw Hannity's interview of Buchanan. I changed my mind ... Buchanan is an ALLY of the superrich, not their enemy. He had the gall to say that half of America doesn't pay income tax and the rich are "paying for that half".
He's out of his fucking mind. The reason half of America pays no income tax is because they either had their job given to Asians or Eastern Europeans or they are in a profession, like computer programming, where wages are in a downward spiral.
The ONLY part of the interview where I agreed with Buchanan was when he talked about balkanization and the troubles it leads to and also the beginning of the end of ethics and morals in America in the feel-good 1960s.
Buchanan talks out of both sides of his mouth.
E.
"I saw Hannity's interview of Buchanan."
I think I barely missed that. I tuned into FOX oldz tonite, just to see if I could take more than 10 minutes without leaving in disgust. I left before the next commercial break (last ~8 minutes of Hannity) - how on earth can people watch that tripe? They were talking about some *no-name* black reverend (demotard, no less), who was all uppity and easily flamed for his dialog/actions. And what's with all the MSM's now going after drunks? Don't they know their elite/corporate lobbyists are nothing but the multiple martini crowd?
I still don't get how Pat had a seat in The McLaughlin Group, as long as he did (I guess John needed a righty). The guy's so bought-and-paid-for, it's pathetic. Whatever happened to Monica? Oh, yeah - she's now a talking head on Fox (nice to look at, ala Bachmann/Palin, but just as empty-headed, IMHO).
Almost caught up w/ poasts (Myrtle ban? I thought that was fixed).
"The Internet."
"Lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala!"
"It is unreality that he cannot bear."
"Time's cyclical descent into insanity is well documented"
"We have only tomorrow, and the tomorrows after that."
Wholly SH!T!!! Lulz, you have *got* to get me some of whatever it is, that you're taking!!!
"I had my sign; "Occupy Democracy not Corporatism". Had a guy ask "WTF, what does that mean?" Really, which one word do you understand that's ((hint) not) monosyllabic? Think, to inhabit or to possess. Corporatism as in the 21st Century version not the 19th Century version, big diff. Still don't get it? Boy, we're got a major climb up the ol' learning curve in this country."
LOL, that is so Riddle of the Sphinx! I love it - and I think I might just know you (visiting Mom, while she does the winter retreat/leaves the house guarded by militia?)...
"I prefer to see them in a different way. I think it is more true that these individuals suffer from a social disease, a cultural paradigm addiction, or that they are simply acting childish with great cost to others."
They are fucking sociopaths that simply haven't resorted to rape/murder yet, because they haven't needed to. They are the sludge that percolates to the top, much like the sludge that must be scraped from molten iron...
Embracing them in any way, whatsoever, simply gives them further support and justification for their actions (which parasitically feedback, through all other systems - government/economic/societal/etc)... They must be "scraped off," sooner, rather than later.
"A couple of weeks ago Q said the protest movement would fizzle out before the World Series."
Q-Tip's not reel gud w/ predictions. Note that mine (11.5K dow - how's that rubbin' you, Q?), still remains the ceiling that it just can't seem to bust through.
Wait until Jan, 2012, for my next prediction (hottest year on record - predicted Nov, 2010). Then Jan, 2013 (hottest year on record). Then, Jan, 2014-2019 (all vying for the record - solar max). Tin foil hat time, for sure!!!
Other predictions? Atmospheric CO2 concentration will continue to be exponential in growth, rather than linear (prolly due to all those volcanoes - lulz!!!).
Buchanan is an ALLY of the superrich, not their enemy. He had the gall to say that half of America doesn't pay income tax and the rich are "paying for that half". -E.
Of course. These professional bloviators are well-paid whores, telling their clients exactly what they're paid to say (as well as having absolutely NO connection with the filth that work for a living.)
This is what happens when one encloses oneself in the bubble of the Washingtoon cracktail/dimmer party circuit.
Someone like Chris Hedges is a horse of an entirely different color. No matter how much one can disagree with his religious or political "affiliations", when he places his fingers on the pulse of the zeitgeist, he's not afraid to tell it like it is in a coherent and thoughtful manner. (I guess being an under-fire correspondent in war zones can do that to some.)
Buchanan is just another puffed-up crank who has told himself so many lies that he now believes them. (Hey, folks still pay for his bullshit so how could he possibly be wrong? Isn't money the touchstone of truth and enlightenment?)
Well I guess the true "protest movement" should have chosen "occupy corrupted socio-political systems" or just say no "perverted financial markets, exchanges and central banks."
The list of current activities that have been subverted into "local, national, even global business" that is antithetical to the American way is beyond any slogan.
The sleazy self-dealing, unethical and out and out illegal activities that have brought us to this point in history are by design both confusing and complex.
The "new American invasion" is complete. And most of you think free markets, regulated commodities and stock exchange exist. Most of you think your central bank (the Federal Reserve) works to promote a safe and sound banking system for the US. It doesn't.
Most of you that congressmen and senators are all equal in power through the concept of one vote, one seat. But they are not. Most legislators are powerless in most of the areas of legislation pertaining to business. However, please vote for them based on whether they like prenatal babies. (sarcasm intended)
[b]Why is it so important that protesters have pertinent, pithy slogans when the rest of society is so hopelessly fucked up?[/b] Inquiring minds want to know
Metuselah, I cannot disagree with your observations up to the point of what you ”see” : “zero chance for them to ever be reformed. They need to be permanently removed from society.” If you put yourself in their shoes, you may long to receive some degree of compassion that “sees” your redemption as something other than hopeless. Maybe we need to bring back the opportunity to be redeemed in penitenturies that replaces the punishment of our prisons. Forgiving and obedience to our loving hearts holds the answers to our questions and the solutions to our problems.
Answering cruelty with greater cruelty has not been affective. As uncommon as it is to try to make one’s enemy a friend, it has been done, it is not impossible, and is the best method for conquering one’s enemies. It is the most practical thing and serves the common good of all concerned.
Kindness is so beautiful. Why reserve it only for those whom you would never think to be unkind to?
"Kindness is so beautiful. Why reserve it only for those whom you would never think to be unkind to?" - ront
Because kindess can easily be mistaken for weakness, especially by sociopaths who are hardwired to find and exploit perceived weakness.
I have no control over what others think about me. Think away! I prefer to exercise real strength perceived as weakness by others, than pretend strength which is nothing other than weakness perceived or not.
At some point we will all have to become fed up with playing with our illusions and face ourselves and see the false from the true. Our true freedom is the choice between slavery to our fears and desires or slavery to our highest principles no matter how unconventional and inconvenient they may be. Is there any other freedom that lasts?
I have no idea what you are writing. Can anyone translate?
"[b]Why is it so important that protesters have pertinent, pithy slogans when the rest of society is so hopelessly fucked up?[/b] Inquiring minds want to know" -bud iz wiser-
Bud, you're wiser than this. LOL!
Because - if a concept cannot be reduced to some sort of slogan - the average American voter/consumer/whatever, will be unable to remember it long enough to care to act upon it.
You like to talk about energy, OK. Well - there's a critical mass of people in this country who believe in the slogan "Renewable Energy Will Not Work."
I don't know the percentages - but it's a high enough number to effect discourse, even on a website like this.
And it's certainly a high enough percentage to affect water cooler conversations, and internet conversations, and political polling.
And political polling impacts policy.
And policy is quite f*cked up - as regards energy, and many other things.
====================
I believe the corporate RW is much better at creating slogans.
Taxes are too high.
No tax increases.
No tax increases on "job creators."
We need a strong "national defense."
Military spending must never be cut.
Support the troops.
I could go on -
Which is one of my slogans. hah!
Confusionism, Methuselah, and Ront -
Methuselah sets records in the hate and revenge department. Nothing will ever be enough to repay the suffering of the Jewish people, in Met's mind. When the last of the "blue-eyed devils" (as he likes to call us, from time to time) was dead by his hands - then he would want to start digging us up and spitting on us.
And confusionism, at least in these last couple of posts - you are siding with Met and generic hate and against Ront and forgiveness.
"Because kindess can easily be mistaken for weakness, especially by sociopaths who are hardwired to find and exploit perceived weakness."
-confu, to ront-
I took Ront's words to be applicable most at the individual level - "to change the world you must first change yourself" sort of thing. But I'd like to let him explain and elaborate on them.
And your words, Confu, apply more at the level of national and internal politics and policy.
But, here's the thing -
The US has military strength that bests the rest of the world by a factor of two, or more.
Yet, we have zero National forgiveness
and our policies are based on a mixture of -
- American Style Corporate/Capitalist Greed -
- and Cold War Russian/Islamic Fear -
"And your words, Confu, apply more at the level of national and INTERNATIONAL politics and policy."
-p2c, correcting mistake-
-------------
Speaking of mistakes - how is it possible that Myrtle had a post blocked last night concerning what was likely an interesting explanation of a "Vegamatic." sp?
And yet 8M is back with us in all of his overposting, multiple posting, ilovephilosophy, more or less illogical GLORY??????
====================
8M - you have a couple of good ideas.
But the way you present them (over and over and over and over) mostly serves to piss people off, and make you look crazy.
LURK NO MORE! well put prog (re take on kindness/weakness from confusion & ront) i can see both sides of the issue, but personally tend to slightly tip to con s point of view if only bc of life experience (bullied as a kid) about our national policy, doesn t it seem to be the policy of TPTB everywhere to divide the rest of us with percieved differences- i.e. in race, religion, class etc, in order to distract from the rape & pillage of our people and planet?! i read "scapegoat- the redneck manifesto" which put some things in perspective...to all the scared little racists out there: there is only one kind of DNA- life is life; we are all related to trees and crickets so get over yourselves!
not sure what exactly it s made from, but vegemite is very similar to miso (fermented soybean paste, ftwdk) which is DEFINITELY an acquired taste!
Thanks, Prog, for the explanation. Understand that I am not trying to belittle anyone's philosophical beliefs, I was just trying to decipher ront's true/false generalities. Besides, there is a difference between hate and anger, causality not withstanding.
Pats promoting his new book..
I heard him on Coast2coast 2 nites ago....
Pat was an early opponent of Globalization.
He still is opposed to it.
Methuselah sets records in the hate and revenge department.
==
My "revenge" is to show you disgusting fascist swines for what you are. The rest will take care of itself.
what you dont like Miso???
vegemite..does it have alot of salt?
If you put yourself in their shoes, you may long to receive some degree of compassion that “sees” your redemption as something other than hopeless.
==
I'm not in their shoes. I never was and I never will be in their shoes. And that's the difference between me and them. The difference between a human being and swine.
Glad you stopped lurking, CF, that's a good comment.
=====================
On other notes, to the thread at large - there is a new internet movement called "We are the 53%" which is in protest to "We are the 99%" battle cry of the OWSERS. (which is a nice slogan, budiz)
So, naturally, this has spawned a new resistance website mocking the group "We are the 53%."
And this website is:
http://actuallyyourethe47percent.tumblr.com/
Funny stuff! But it does make me ask AGAIN, where is the web presence of the (supposed) 10's of thousands of OWSERS.
I'm not on facebook - is that where OWS is trying to make a large numerical stand?? Because they need to be out on the open internet, IMO.
===============
Others suggest a large portion of "The 99%" in the US of A - would actually BE IN the "TOP 5%" of the WORLDWIDE population - based on living standards, freedom from hunger, etc.
That's enough mathematics for now.
But these are interesting things to think about.
No problem, confu. I'll still like to hear what ront has on his mind - I'm not presuming to speak for him.
Personally, I've got a hard edge of "trust, but verify," in most of my personal and business relationships.
Now, as regards: "I am not trying to belittle anyone's philosophical beliefs..." -confusionism-
Some things need to be belittled, if they cannot be skewered and killed outright.
For example: "to show you disgusting fascist swines for what you are. The rest will take care of itself..." -methuselah-
No quarter and no forgiveness ever, eh Met?
Others have suggested that you are not Jewish NOR Israeli at all -
But merely a hate filled caricature.
Guess we'll never really know - not in this lifetime, anyway.
Metuselah, I cannot disagree with your observations up to the point of what you ”see” : “zero chance for them to ever be reformed.
==
I understand human nature and you don't. There will no fundamental reform until the system collapses. That's why I'm certain it will collapse. And history has proven me correct, time and time again.
There will ^be no fundamental reform
No quarter and no forgiveness ever, eh Met?
==
Forgiveness for what? For being a swine? You are what you are. As I said before, nature will take care of you, it always does.
actually, i was raised a hippie, so i do like miso- just know some won t...and i didn t think the vegemite was too salty- at least not overpowering
Blocked post
Stupid software
"Forgiveness for what? For being a swine?"
-met-
What have you got against pigs, anyway?
Seriously, swine are both useful and delicious - which makes the term lack punch as an insult directed toward an American of European (or African, non-Muslim) descent.
It's like calling me a fried chicken.
Or a watermelon.
And I've never understood that dietary prohibition against properly fed and well-cooked pork.
Also, what's wrong with catfish, and shrimp, and rare steak - while we are on the subject of cultural differences and the religious basis of insult.
================
I'm just messing with you, Met.
Some have suggested that you and Vl*d are the same CFN poster.
Would you care to address that?
It's interesting that V*ad has never denied it.
http://gift4shopping.com/animal-husbandry/positive-things-about-pigs/5/
Is THIS harmless little website what got me blocked????????
Sorry, Vlad -
In my paranoid search for "post-banning" rationales - I thought perhaps your name had been put on the filter list.
Thus the Vl*d's. Again, apologies.
And it's just weird software.
And an uncaring IP guy - who never looks at things that are "held for review."
And never allows them to be posted.
EVER!
anyone "here" know anything about a solar research station somewhere in the southwestern desert (maybe az or nm)? i saw a doc on pbs a few years ago about it: mirrored troughs follow the sun which heats a closed system of oil in order to boil water to drive a turbine...i tried to google it w/out success in order to refresh my memory about the numbers- acreage, output, etc i do remember they said it was the only one like it, at least at the time...
Would you care to address that?
==
Why? I'm having too much with them idiots.
GUFFAW!! fried chicken! watermelon?! ok, you win...but seriously, aren t the dietary prohibitions about health concerns (trichinosis, lack of refrigeration until very recently, and the like)? i can t think of any other reason not to enjoy hot buttered bacon!
http://www.zenithsolar.com/content.aspx?id=319
too much ^fun with them
thanks for the link it isn t the station i was thinking of but interesting nonetheless...
Nobody gives a sh** about Ron Paul, because he is too old. Whatever his good points may be, Americans are so superficial all they care about is appearances - a younger man will win, even if he is just another idiot, like Perry, or Romney. DUH!
E, it's good that you didn't totally change your mind. I think that we understand the right, rich,("racist"?) side of Buchanan. But it's good that you agree on the balkanization, morals/ethics issues, extremely important ones.
I left out cultural.
Don't people realize that politics is irrelevant as long as the system stays the same? It doesn't make a difference if you get screwed from the Left or from the Right - you still get screwed. It's like having sex with someone who has a bag over their head: just pretend your partner is beautiful or handsome because the orgasm is what matters.
When the system is changed, politics could matter. Amend the constitution to institute term limits and mandatory balancing of the budget, limit total campaign contributions, and prohibit lobbyists. Then we may begin to consider that our government works.
But you know as well as I that this isn't going to happen. Once neural pathways are developed, it's very difficult to change them. People like the security of the same and fear the new.
Peel back the layers of the onion far enough, and you find the reality is that people haven't been taught critical thinking skills. If any conspiracy theorists are on this blog - and there are - consider that this is the real conspiracy.
Right on Bean, too many of the wrong people have the critical thinking skills. Think you out of a dollar anyday.
It looks like iI have got some ‘splainin’ to do. I am glad what I wrote struck a chord even if it’s notes may have been a bit sour.
First, the concepts I am offering are based upon spiritual values which I believe have the potential to deliver lasting solutions to problems, both individually and collectively. The opposing values put forth are conventional worldly values. It is perfectly natural that you would not appreciate the value of my message, just as I no longer abide by the value of the worldly concepts you espouse. I like bringing these principles into open conversations that seek to answer questions and solve problems, not because I think they will find a hardy welcome (on the contrary) but that I think they prove useful as a reminder for those that have heard and still hear the truth even if it is very faint below their “worldly beliefs.”
By the way, I do not disapprove doing what needs to be done to stop people who do harm to others. How one goes about stopping them and what justice is metted out depends on the particular circumstances. For instance, let’s establish state-run banks that serve the People and drive the banksters out of business.
Ultimately what one believes matters little unless one lives up to these principles. Arguing for them and fighting for them are quite a bit easier than the living up to part. It helps to be reminded about them because it is easy in this world to have these spiritual notions slip away unnoticed.
Now, to offer something that could help to relate my generalities that I offered previously. Let’s say a long time, intimate friend or close family connection does some self-centered action, knowingly or unknowingly, that causes you harm. Are you apt to extend them more, the same or less tolerance, understanding, empathy, kindness, compassion, generosity of spirit, or forgiveness than you would to a stranger? The reason for the question is that the spiritual reality, whether one believes it is exists or not, is that all are One, like a family is one. Living in accord with reality is always better in the long run.
I think scientific observation would bear out that societies that treat one and other more as kin are happier and enjoy greater prosperity and with greater equality.
Any clearer?
Ouch. I was listening to KFOG this morning at 7:15 and heard Cain singing John Lennon's "Imagine." He Sung "Imagine there's no pizza...."
The whole thing was about pizza.
Don't people realize that politics is irrelevant as long as the system stays the same?
==
People are starting to.
The system was set up to serve the moneyed elite. And the moneyed elite only care about the moneyed elite. That is true today, and it was true the day the politicians signed the American Imperialist Treaty/Constitution.
Ront,
I understood your position already prior. We are one family, I absolutely agree with that.
But we have aliens for company. They are fascist lizards who have callous diseased souls bent on thievery, empire, and domination over others. There's nothing you can do to change them. But you can defeat their system by rejecting it and refusing to participate in it.
i respectfully beg to differ: robert sapolsky studied a troop of baboons starting in 1978 in which the biggest & most aggressive (alpha males as well as females if i remember correctly) were killed off, i think by some disease...those that were left weren t mean or aggressive, and when more baboons started to drift in to try to join up they would act like ordinary, asshole baboons- until the original troop would gang up and show the new one that no, we are nice around here...resulting in a bunch of "civilized" baboons it sure seems to me that while it might be difficult we 99% need to make the asshole baboons to be nice
sorry Q...
"Amend the constitution to institute term limits and mandatory balancing of the budget, limit total campaign contributions, and prohibit lobbyists."
-btb-
Good ideas, Bill. Add ending the two-party system to this list, too.
================
http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php
Want to know why the US is all fouled up.
Look at who's buying the votes in Congress.
National Chamber of Commerce is from Satan, imho.
They are number 1 in lobbying money.
Heck of a nice post, Bill. I just glanced back and saw this part:
"...people haven't been taught critical thinking skills. If any conspiracy theorists are on this blog - and there are - consider that this is the real conspiracy." -btb-
From what I've seen, public K-12 education went into Annual Testing Mania when BushII and a bipartisan coalition passed that NCLB law. And that killed off most useful parts of public school except for the "drill and kill" parts.
But critical thinking went by the wayside in the US - a long time before NCLB was passed.
What do you have in mind for bringing critical thinking back, Bill?
I don't know, some of his gospel might move you.
I'd like to see how he would do on "Riot in cell block No.9".
I've got to ask any CFN'ers out there who are either awake or perhaps still waiting in line for their iphone 5/4s a question. What is with this "Movable Type" software? I spent about twenty minutes or so during lunch today typing a reply (not because I was going to say anything particulary profound, but because I had to correct a ton of gammatical errors and typos). I went to enter a reference notation to something I plagerized, hit the "tab" key to move the text over a little bit and bam, or maybe it was zap, the entire text vanished into cybervoid. I guess I should have expected the program to live up to it name "movable type" but to me it was just a WTF moment. Boy, do I dislike these electromatic devices. So the question is; Is the "Live Journal" any better or should I revert back to using cuneiform?
Please advise...
Ah, Procon, there's the rub. We would need to motivate those in charge of public education curricula to make critical thinking classes mandatory for much of the K-12 years. But that's not going to happen because it's the states that control school curricula, I believe, and now we're talking about politics again. A Catch-22 situation.
Furthermore, we'd have to overhaul the whole public education concept, which basically teaches everyone as if they had equal abilities and desires to learn, when in fact students are NOT equal (for many reasons). People also have different methodalities in how they process new information. In today's schools, disruptive children, children with learning disabilities and just plain dummies are lumped together in classrooms with bright, motivated and focused students. Nobody wins.
In America, everyone has the right to get an education, but those that don't want to shouldn't be forced to. I believe the concept of teaching to the lowest denominator is a well-intentioned liberal concept that doesn't work. But to change the educational system to a more logical structure is another political matter and therefore nothing will be changed.
My own solution is to eliminate public education in its entirety and have parents take responsibility for their children's education. If it isn't feasible for a parent to stay home to teach, then a group of parents could get together and pay someone to teach. This would eliminate the educational bureaucracy, lower local taxes and not force those that don't have children to pay for others' education. Of course, society would never change the system.
Hope I'm not intruding, but here's the answer to bringing back critical thinking, an answer that, let's put it this way, SHOULD have always been there;
Well disciplined, well taught math classes, and on higher levels, logic/philosphy.
BB, everyone was lumped together back in the day, many decades ago also. In public school I remember disruptive students, bright students, slow students, eager students, apathetic students,etc. The system was its own natural sieve.
The curricula and standards were set and you met them or you didn't. Some went on to become doctors or scientists, some butchers or plumbers.
In my mind also, it's the liberal intrusion and excessive politics that ruined the system.
There is no way at this time that the system can be decorticated down to the "rrr".
I like your point about couples with no children.
Riddle of the Sphinx.
Yea, you're right, my sign was a bit obscure. That was why the flip side of the sign simply said "Corporate Lobbying is Bribery". I thought that was pretty direct. Even got a few thumbs up on that one! My son's sign said "We the People are not a Mob" in response to Eric "buy me" Cantor's idiotic statement the week before. Well, at least we are not a mob, not yet...
Bottom line is our Democracy has been bought and paid for, for quite some time. Corporations and special interests influence the narcissist politicians and all prefer it this way.
Sure you can vote but does it really change anything? Not really. Reminds me of the definition of insanity; doing the same thing and expecting a different result. So seeing people out there trying to find a collective voice is a good thing. Maybe when the voice is loud enough someone will take notice, and better yet, take action. But I don't expect the current PTB to do so. There's a real danger this will go in the opposite direction. In the not too distant past fascism and corporatism have also gotten along quite well together. Given our state of perpetual war, I'd say they still do.
But it seems this is a place we've been at before. I just started reading J. Meacham's book on President Andrew Jackson. In the forth chapter it states that Jackson thought the country was experiencing a "Crisis of Corruption". Corruption so corrosive that he was convinced it threatened the nation. A hundred years ago we had Teddy Roosevelt (a Progressive-Republican, can you imagine?) taking on the "trusts" which were again, big business. So here we are and it's deja-vu all over again. The players are pretty much the same; big business, special interests and a Central Bank. But today our situation is further complicated by resource depletion across the board, population overshoot and obscene-complicit politicians only interested in re-election or that next position as an industry lobbyist.
Best we can do now is use our time to prepare wisely. Knowing full well that you can never prepare completely.
Soon enough the rubber band ball of financial B.S. is all going to unwind. So enjoy your front row seat on the edge of history.
Heard something I thought seemed appropriate, went something like this;
Are you listening to what I'm trying to tell you? "There are no answers, only choices"
C.B.L.
Lets hope we can all make the correct choices given our own circumstance.
Until then try not to go too Apeshit.
And as for visiting mom and the ol' militia, that's a journey I know I have to make some time, soon enough, but hopefully not yet...
Till next week remember:
"The suvivalist is the ultimate optimist, he prepares and expects to prevail"
Stay liquid...stay frosty...
Yeah, that's the impression I got ... that Buchanan
was "bought and paid for". I really detest the
Washington Beltway "Millionaire Punditocracy"
of which Buchanan is clearly an insider.
The guy should have faded to black after he
wrote "A Republic and Not An Empire" because
he has stuck around just long enough to reveal
that he's yet another fraudulent Constitutionalist.
Is there a Republican left who even read Jefferson's
missives about counterbalancing monied interests?
Apparently not.
C. said:
Because kindess can easily be mistaken for weakness, especially by sociopaths who are hardwired to find and exploit perceived weakness.
*****************************************************************
That's why we have to get our kids out from behind Gameboys, Playstations, Xboxes, TV sets, and computer terminals so that they develop mature social personae complete with "bullshit detectors".
Just because kindness can be mistaken for weakness does not mean we should practice UNKINDNESS. Even Confucius wouldn't say anything that unsound. One care be WARY and still be KIND.
E.
If Pat is still an anti-globalist then he is a hypocrite because the biggest beneficiaries of the concentration of wealth in the U.S. are the CEOs of multinational corporations who shop around to see who will debase their life the most to benefit shareholders. Also, CEOs *never* offshore their own jobs. Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the rest of us.
Buchanan hopes that Hannity's dopey audiences don't realize that his "logic" contradicts itself. He's just another Washington Beltway career pundit. I hate the subtle SNEER always present on Buchanan's face, too.
E.
Yes, I still agree with Buchanan's stance on American moral relativism and its development in the '60s as well as his stance on balkanization. I live in Cal. and anyone who lives here feels like they're living in Beijing at some times and Mexico City at other times. It sucks and there's no REAL diversity ... just isolated cultural enclaves that don't like each other.
As for Buchanan's stance on moral relativism, it is precisely HERE that I remain a staunch conservative. I think that very relativism has led to tattoos, piercings, and the general vulgarity of Gen-Y and Gen-X. We no longer have good/bad polarities like "modesty good, in-your-face bad" or "innocence good, sluttiness bad".
When I was in high school the "bad girls" were isolated and then kicked out of school. Now, they're almost celebs even though their being oozes of narcissism, premature sexual activity, and a kind of perverse pride in being turbo sluts. I'm one of those "dinosaurs" who can't get turned on by a woman if every "edge" is hard. If there's no adorableness, there's no sensuality to me. I find Gen-Y girls to be, not only execreble, but also the LEAST ATTRACTIVE generation of girls perhaps in all of American history. They're certainly the FATTEST ever.
E.
"Is there any other freedom that lasts?"
What makes you think that freedom lasts. Was there somebody humming the "Battle Hymn of The Republic" while you typed that post?
while it might be difficult we 99% need to make the asshole baboons to be nice
==
Yes, by avoiding these baboons like the plague.
This is where PC completely "misunderstands" my position concerning "revenge". And I'm pretty sure it's deliberate. Anyway, my position is very simple. It's basically the position that Jesus took against the brutal occupation of his people and his country by the Romans. The maxim “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's”, sums it all up. It means, don't use Roman coin; don't frequent Roman towns; avoid anything to do with Rome; educate others to do the same.
Without people participating in their system, they and their system will die off.
with all due respect, jesus & his followers have had 2000 years; while i agree in principle w/ his reported teachings, having the moral high ground hasn t stopped caesars from killing (yes, killing: starving us out, working us to death, & nownow taking basic medicine away- google neem oil- on top of empire building wars...was it p2c who said, 'i could go on'?!) to sum up my point, i think we the people (of earth) owe it to ourselves, our children, & our planet- not necessarily in that order of priority!- to take "back" control of the decision making processes concerning everything from governance to energy use...and btw, agreed that education is a large part of any solution, whether self- or otherwise...
with all due respect, jesus & his followers have had 2000 years
==
No, Jesus and his followers were murdered by the Romans. What you had for the next 2,000 years is the Roman Imperialist Church and outrageous lies and misrepresentations by Roman agents and redactors such as Paulus of Tarsus usurping the story of Jesus.
"So here we are and it's deja-vu all over again. The players are pretty much the same; big business, special interests and a Central Bank. But today our situation is further complicated by resource depletion across the board, population overshoot and obscene-complicit politicians only interested in re-election or that next position as an industry lobbyist." -LL
Yes, and with Big Ag and Big Energy in the mix and foolin' with Mother Nature, it may be for All The Marbles.
"Best we can do now is use our time to prepare wisely. Knowing full well that you can never prepare completely.
Soon enough the rubber band ball of financial B.S. is all going to unwind. So enjoy your front row seat on the edge of history." -LL
It's certainly going to be "interesting", and I'm seeing a struggle for the very existence of humankind; notwithstanding the serious contention for its' very soul. (Seems all of a piece at this juncture, doesn't it?)
Fine post, Lenny; thanks for putting it out there and joining in the "fray" (citizens publicly speaking out).
"Hope I'm not intruding..." -tucsonspur-
No, no intrusion at all. The best dialog is additive in nature, anyway. I picture this thread as a roundtable discussion - when it's at its best.
"Well disciplined, well taught math classes, and on higher levels, logic/philosphy."
-tucsonspur, on teaching critical thinking-
Logic/philosophy - absolutely! Although I've got to say that the philosophy I had in college was almost totally oriented to study of prior/competing philosophical systems of thought...Lots of theory and no application, in other words.
What students of philosophy really need is an opportunity to build their OWN philosophical system - suited to life (somehow??) in today's world, yet still capable of searching and finding Truth.
As far as math goes - I don't know about that. I've known too many people who could do math backwards and forwards at extremely high levels - - yet who lived their lives accumulating "things" without ever considering (that I can see) any deeper meaning to life.
Or, as you said, TucsonS, "Too many of the wrong people have the critical thinking skills."
===================
BTW, tucson - you floated up some ideas about
"...balkanization, morals/ethics issues, extremely important ones....cultural..."
These terms are often used, without elaboration or definition, to attract and hold "conservative" voters in the Republican/conservative fold.
For example -
I'm all in favor of iron clad business ethics.
I think my sexual ethics are my own business.
Far to many persons/voters conflate the two, and CONSISTENTLY vote for the wrong sorts of liars.
E, I must tell you that I appreciate your postings from the gulag of eh-dumb-a-ka-shun.
The perspective of the "young folks" by those that have to try and fill their empty little heads is invaluable. It's a glimpse of the future that's often [and mysteriously] unexamined.
I learned a lot in grammar school (except for grammar), but then again, I always enjoyed reading. No teevee in the house until I was eight, and then it was strictly regulated; that probably made a difference. The rest of my educational experience was my own fault; the teachers were dedicated professionals (for the most part), so no bitch there.
"This is where PC completely "misunderstands" my position concerning "revenge". And I'm pretty sure it's deliberate." -met-
It's not deliberate, met. I'm just reacting to what comes across as your completely unforgiving nature.
And I'm reacting to the way you seem to hold me and mine, personally, responsible for the policies of the Vatican, the Nazis, and the American Style Corporate Fascists.
====================
And again - for the CFN newcomers, Met and Mika are the same poster. There's no question about that.
Are Methuselah, Mika, and Vald all products of the same individual poster?
There are similarities.
" Amend the constitution to institute term limits and mandatory balancing of the budget, limit total campaign contributions, and prohibit lobbyists."
And who do you think is going to "amend the constitution"? The same politicians you declare indistinguishable from one another? And yet you assert that voters who sift for candidates who support campaign finance reform from those who don't - or seek to distinguish politicians from one another in general - are declared to be lacking in critical thinking skills. Indeed, these non- critical thinking voters have not come to realize that "politics is irrelevant" according to Bill.
Someone peeled the onion back alright,and is stumbling clumsy in a sea of cloudy tears. Critical thinking, my ass.
Libya's son of a sheepherder has either been kilt or captured.
NPR characterizes him as "insane" and "brutal" (et-fucking-cetera), and expats are calling in to say they hope he has been kilt. That's the "desired" outcome and I scent rotting corpses on the breeze with signs 'round their necks. The signs say: Dead men tell no tales. (Shades of Saddam.)
So, lets look into our Rumsfeldian book of Known Unknowns of Iraqi Nationbuilding and see just how messy this bit of frrrreeeeedom is gonna get, shall we?
Will somebody please remove the handily donated weapons from the fractious new owners of the place before they go APESHIT? (Jezis, this one's right out of the divide-and-conquer playbook.)
Who benefits?
(Oh, Libyan teevee says he was kilt in Sirte "in a hole" with "3 golden pistols and a Samsonite suitcase". Sound familiar?)
Ps. Hurrah!! Freedom may soon be coming to YOUR town!
And I'm reacting to the way you seem to hold me and mine, personally, responsible for the policies of the Vatican, the Nazis, and the American Style Corporate Fascists.
==
You certainly are personally responsible! Earlier in the year, you very much identified with their malfeasance so long as you perceived that you and yours were drawing benefits from it. So yes, I do hold you personally responsible. Unlike some others, you can't claim ignorance to these crimes. You knew exactly where things are at, and you did not voice any opposition to it. Quite the opposite, you were all for it. So long as you and yours were benefiting from the misery and suffering of others, that was all that mattered to you. That's why I called you and yours fascist scum. You are just as much of a lowlife as those that are perpetrating these crimes IN YOUR NAME. You are all conspirators in this.
Hey, Met, I don’t ascribe to the lizard mentality but I agree with: “There's nothing you can do to change them. But you can defeat their system by rejecting it and refusing to participate in it.”
How can one gain the ability to do this rejecting and refusing? I would say it requires working on one’s self, becoming aware of the addictions and delusions the culture has indoctinated into us. Then a process of getting unhooked and disentangled. Xhalor, if you succeed at this, that freedom can not only last but be fulfilling and sweet.
A collective awakening and the creativity it inspires will have an effect on the world. Examples: Would you or could you buy a car without seatbelts? Processed “food” companies are “choosing” to replace trans fats and corn syrup in their products. These are outward changes taking place by appealing to what the “bottom-liners” care about. One needs to meet people where they are to affect change. Does it require enmity or hatred? No. All natural growth is gradual. The rest is cancer.
Is this a private fight, or can anybody join in?
Are you attempting to convert P2C into a "joo-hater"? If you feel you are representative of "da real joos" viewpoint, you may succeed.
(Just sayin', you know my views on imperialistic mass murder and skullduggery of ANY brand...)
"Earlier in the year, you very much identified with their malfeasance so long as you perceived that you and yours were drawing benefits from it."
-metuselah-
I have no idea what you're talking about, Met.
Please elaborate.
"Is this a private fight, or can anybody join in?"
-O3-
I think I'd want you on my side in just about any fight, ozone.
Except when it came to religion of The Sky Gods.
Then I'd want to run like hell (Hell?) the other direction. hah!
Do you ever read ArchDruid, o3?
He did one last week on "thaumaturgy" (approximately defined as mass societal brainwashing) that was very good - and made me think of some of our "practical religion" squabbles.
Take a look and let me know what you think.
===============
Ront - GOOD STUFF!
"...outward changes taking place by appealing to what the “bottom-liners” care about...."
-ront, regarding seat belts, corn syrup, and trans fats-
I'm thinking incremental changes are the best we're going to get. Those are some pretty good examples.
I keep reading about the essential agreement of the TEA partiers and the OWSERS as regards the collusion of Washington and Wall Street in producing a system that only enriches the rich.
The TEA's and the OWS'ers are (somehow??) being kept separated in the public mind(s.)
If they could unite on some key points - things might happen that are even better than seat belts and "real" fats in foods. hah!
One needs to meet people where they are to affect change. Does it require enmity or hatred? No.
==
I agree.
All I'm doing is raising awareness of the truth, and also making people take personal responsibility for their willful ignorance and inaction in countering state propaganda and malfeasance.
I have no idea what you're talking about, Met.
Please elaborate.
==
What's there to elaborate?
"Earlier in the year, you very much identified with their malfeasance so long as you perceived that you and yours were drawing benefits from it."
-met-
I did no such thing.
"their malfeasance" whose???
"drawing benefits" how???
Either give me some specifics of what I said that leads you to these conclusions.
Or drop the subject.
No need to elaborate if all you are going to do is make sh*t up, met.
How can one gain the ability to do this rejecting and refusing?
==
Mass awareness, mass protest, mass strikes, withdrawing funds and participation from all gov mafia institutions and corporations.
Hey Jim one thing that has become clear since 2007 is that corporations, organizations, institutions and the like no longer need to keep the books balanced and the bills paid to stay in business and keep operating. All that is necessary, it seems, is POLITICAL WILL, backed up by the awesome power (and largesse) of the Government. The Chicago Tribune, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Postal Service, Amtrak, General Motors, Chrysler, UBS, AIG, Bank of America, (to name just a few), in previous times all toes up, dead, liquidated, with combined losses in the trillions ... but still they walk, doing business with all their previous arrogance, animated by funds from the US treasury, like Zombies in a George Romero film, consuming taxpayer dollars like the walking dead consume human flesh ...
To me it looks like this jury-rigged and stitched together economy can go on like this forever. What's going to stop it? Certainly not the Owsers!
--WSP7
Don't play stupid, PC. Everyone who's been here for a while knows what I'm talking about. You tactic of playing the "ignorant" nazi who didn't have a clue, is not going to wash. It didn't wash back then and it's not going to wash now.
You made it very clear that if others are injured and brutalized by your government to maintain your imperial thieving, that's just fine by you.
"You made it very clear that if others are injured and brutalized by your government to maintain your imperial thieving, that's just fine by you."
-met-
Sorry met - you must have me confused with some other screenname. I've never said anything like that - that could even be SPUN or TWISTED into that idea.
===================
Are you and Vlad the same poster?
Yes or no?
If they were the same person do you expect an honest answer?????
biggest beneficiaries of the concentration of wealth in the U.S. are the CEOs of multinational corporations who shop around to see who will debase their life the most to benefit shareholders. Also, CEOs *never* offshore their own jobs. Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the rest of us..
So you are saying he is for the Corporations/ Multi Nationals?
Or you just dislike him?
I'm confusing you with someone else. I've confronted you, not once but several times on this, and each and very time you dismissed me and laughed me off. You simply didn't care.
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but I see you are unarmed.
I agree with your statement, up to the point where you state that the OWSers can't stop the swelling wave of rancid corporatocracy. Maybe not on their own, but all it takes is a small spark to start a raging fire.
P2C seems to be one of the most balanced and fair minded posters on this site. Why are you busting his balls?
But Hey, Metusaleh, we hear you.
You hate the United States!
You hate Americans!
I know, I know, we are all fascists and Nazis. I already learned that from a dude here who calls himself General Hancock.
You have made yourself very clear over a long period of time.
How many times, in how many different ways, do you have to tell us?
---WSP7
Lets hope you're right Confucious, lets hope you're right. we shall see.
--WSP7
"If they were the same person do you expect an honest answer?????"
-antiSoak, regarding Met, Mika, and Vlad-
Vlad has been asked by several posters if he is these other two - he's never denied it.
Metuselah admits to being Mika but won't deny being Vlad.
====================
I don't really care. "Vlad" is generally pretty consistent and tries to be somewhat honorable with what he considers to be Truth.
Mika/Met just makes stuff up like:
"I'm confusing you with someone else. I've confronted you, not once but several times on this"
"on this..." On what, Mika, on WHAT??
On your idea that the Vatican is responsible for WWI, WWII (both sides), the OSS, the CIA, the settlement of Israel, the defense of Israel, attacking Iraq, planning to attack Iran, etc -
I'll admit that that seems a little far-fetched, but it doesn't mean that you and I should not be able to converse politely on other topics.
When you, unpolitely, say that (non-Catholic) I and my children, grandchildren, and (as yet unborn) greatgrandchildren are responsible for allowing this, because we were born as native citizens of the United States and therefore support the CIA/Vatican..........?????
Jeeze, this is pointless.........
The Biblical Allegory of the Tower of Babel
becomes the Metaphorical Internet of Babble
Which is unfortunate.
but it doesn't mean that you and I should not be able to converse politely on other topics.
==
We're way past the point of being polite. But we are making progress. At least now we don't seem to hear too much talk about manifest destiny coming from you fascist Amerikkkan scum. It's not much, but we are making progress.
Metusaleh, we hear you.
You hate the United States!
==
Yes, I do, because there is a lot to hate. Your fascist shit is inescapable. And frankly, if YOU don't hate Amerikkka, then there's something seriously wrong with you.
oftwominds:
Thoughts on the Occupy Wall Street (OWS) Movement
- http://goo.gl/aSdeY
Oh, Eleuthero! Honestly!!
It's "stumbling clumsily", not stumbling clumsy, Buckyball. If you bothered to read my post more carefully, you might have read where I said this isn't going to happen because it's politics. I believe you misinterpreted what I was saying.
I'm just now watching news coverage of Khadaffi's killing. It's quite brutal and is a bit difficult not to feel some pity for him as I watch the Libyan leader being dragged, beaten and shot by an angry mob, even though, in the end, he died as brutally as he led. Karmic, I guess. I also can't help thinking of a few Americans that deserve(d) the same fate (Kissinger, Cheney, Nixon, LBJ, McNamara) for crimes against humanity that were almost assuredly far greater than Khadaffi's. Yet Kissinger and Cheney walk around free (and rich) without any fear of retribution or punishment because their crimes were committed in the name of freedom, liberty, blah, blah, blah. It's fucking hypocrisy, pure and simple.
Surprisingly, my public school math teachers were pretty competent. I believe most members of every age group in America still alive in reasonable numbers have been the victims of a poor educational policy. While I agree that logic and math should be taught at the higher levels, it becomes very difficult to train a mind to think logically and critically after one's personality has been set in place, sometime after 8 years old. I would prefer to start the training at this time.
"he was kilt in Sirte "in a hole" with "3 golden pistols "
==============
Anybody who thinks firearms (pistols, shotguns, etc.) are "protection" is an idiot in denial of reality. You are going to die and it does not matter how many pistols you have.
...And lo, it is written:
He who enters into Paradise with the greatest number of golden pistols shall be named the victor (all glory accrue to thee), Forever and ever, amen.
-1st Idiots; 7th Denial
Thailand capitol floods; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5jhRmR0O5k
I wonder how many months or years before the market is regulated toward sustainability...
The numbers of organizations signing on to resolutions on climate change continue to climb.
If anyone wants to watch tumbleweeds roll by, check out a climate denier blog.
There is a hard core of American idiocy and its demographic is foam hat, mustache, and gas guzzler.